Fly Rods In Zone 3 At Bssp

[bikehikefish]

This sounds like a "grass is always greener" kind of thing. There is plenty of room in the park, let the bait slingers have their own area. I used to like fishing the fast water below whistle bridge with plastic worms; now I swing a soft hackle through the fast water in zone 2.

Plenty of water for all.

[Project Healing Waters]

I carry some soft plastic eggs on worm/scud hooks. I carry some bunny leeches and wooly buggers with soft plastic tails extending beyond the fur or marabou. If there's nobody down in Zone 3 and I'm getting crowded in Zone 2, I have been known to tie on something with soft plastic in it and fish down there. The way I read the regs, I'm perfectly legal to do that. On the other hand, toss a fly with soft rubber legs in Zone 2 or 3 and you're breaking the rules.

Thankfully, I only fish trout parks when teaching or with buddies who invite me to go with them. Too many crowds, rules, and fish for my taste.

[flyfishmaster]

Well I thank everyone that has posted something on this topic.

The next time down, I think I'm going to rig up an apricot glue egg with an orange rubber worm dropper in that fast water past the Susy Hole. I think I'll be say "Woo Hoo Fish On", a few time. I can't wait.

Later,

Tight lines to all that can get out this weekend.

Later,

FFM

[Pastor]

What about flies tied using furry foam.

[Paola Cat]

Will be there on Friday. Gotta get some of those orange rubber worm droppers. Fish On! Son! LOL

[rcguy]

Ok now you guys got me interested! I have a good supply of worms from years past and I just might try them. Almost thinking about going down next week sometime but not sure the back is ready. Pinched nerve still active. I did go out back last night and last for a while.

PC, Have a good time and post a report please. My wife is on spring break next week and I'm might convince her to go down monday with me for a little while. I don't think I could fish for very long but I'm itching to go.

[UAK squirrelpie]

Doesn't feel so good to be excluded, does it?

With all the places that bait fishermen are excluded from in this state, don't you think that it's fair to let them have their own little stretch of water?

You can go fly fishing on every mile of public water except here (correct me if I'm wrong).

I've actually never fished zone 3 at bennett before, I've got to try it some time. Sounds like a great place to drown some minnows!

[Snow Fly]

UAK:

I could be wrong but I think Montauk has a fly only fishing area. I understand where you are coming from, an earlier comment mentioned the fact fishermen of flies (not the type of rod) has the whole stream for 4 months during winter catch and release. Then I think why should a bait fishermen care if someone uses a fly rod with bait classified as live bait? After all a person can use a spinning rod (which I have no problem with) in zone #1 as long as his bait is a fly as defined in the regulations.

[rps]

The flies vs. bait vs. CR vs. whatever the fish and game regs may be always has fascinated me.

My opinion, with which you are welcome to disagree, but I hope not send insults:

1. No empirical study exists that shows/proves fish survive catch and release on single barbless hook in significantly greater numbers than those caught and released on artificial baits with barbless treble hooks. Everything out there is anecdotal. How the angler handles the fish before releasing it is probably a greater factor in survival rate than whether or not the fish was caught on a single hook or a treble.

2. Bait fishing for fish will not kill every fish caught. Proper handling and release is again the key. One afternoon on the White in Sportsman hole, I watched a doofus and dumbnuts pair practice CR while using powerbait. They grabbed each trout around the middle, squeezed, jerked every hook up out of the stomach (they were letting the trout swallow and run before they knew they had a bite), and then threw the fish back. When they left, the bottom was littered with dead trout. I caught and released one nice brown that day, on a crawdad. The fish never left the water and I only netted him so I could get the hook out or cut the leader. He had a distinctive healed wound on his back, probably from a heron, and I caught him again a year later from the same hole. Released him then, too. (These are anecdotal examples)

3. Bait fishing is probably a bit harder to successfully CR since there will be a greater number of stomach and/or gill hook ups than with artificials. Again, no empirical study normalized with proper handling exists to show the comparison. The irony is how many fly fishermen use san juan worms and salmon egg patterns. My experience with these, and with small jigs fished in current, is that a certain number of fish take these deep. Could be my reflexes aren't that good though.

4. We must all recognize that many people catch fish to eat them. And for many of these people, bait is the most effective way to do that.

5. No one has the right to say all others must do things just like they do. Only the public as a whole, through the political agencies, may say what is and is not allowed.

6. Fish and game agencies in every state are political agencies charged with the duty to balance science with politics.

7. They way I see it, groups began to lobby the fish and game folks for catch and release, artificials only as a conservation measure. Probably after seeing some doofus and dumbnuts pair in action. That is great. I agree some waters should be designated catch and release, artificials only. Being only normal human beings, the groups always demanded the very best waters (on the White they wanted and got the dam and Rim Shoals). Ok, that's fine too. Trophy areas are good things and should be in good waters. But then they went too far. Without science, they demanded the regulations require single barbless hook only. In some cases they lobbied for and got rules even more restrictive. In other words they demanded the fish and game people create a private park for fly fisherman only. Because the groups had become powerful politically (think about it - as a group, fly fishermen are the classic political power demographics: better educated, economically better off, more inclined to vote, willing to give money to lobbying) the fish and game people said yes.

8. The far larger number of fishing license buyers reacted. Guide organizations, public hearing attendees, and others demanded their right to fish their way be recognized. Fish and game responded to this political pressure as well.

9. The results are silly regulations such as the bait only and no rubber legs on flies rules and my personal favorite - in the CR section below Bull Shoal dam a single treble may be used but in the Rim Shoals CR only single barbless hooks are allowed.

10. Both groups are made up of normal people and normal people are inclined to think their group is best and that people who are not members of their group are idiots. Thus, when I float my boat through Rim Shoals, and I have to ask the fellow who looks like an Orvis ad to step out of the only channel so I can get through, he glares at my spinning rod in obvious contempt.

11. I propose that all who visit this discussion reflect upon the extent to which us versus them has interfered with fish and game regulations. And with true conservation.

Now before the responses start, I want to make a few things clear. I fish for big trout, bass, and walleye using bait, artificials with trebles, and flyrod. I CR everything except a few legal walleyes that I eat with great pleasure. In the past I belonged to fishing groups such as BASS and TU. Also, I never look like an Orvis ad, and I never stand in the channel.

[Snow Fly]

RPS: I agree with your comments. I have no problem with anyone who uses live bait, spinning rod, cane pole,fly rod or any other type of equipment. You are correct about the proper way to release fish, and the increase of mortality to fish handled excessively. I personally have not had any problem with many fish taking flies to deep unless I really go to sleep at the button then I simply cut the tippet and release the fish. About the only time I use a San Juan worm is when the water is high, since you will find many worms in the water during this time. I don't use egg patterns but have no problem with people who do. After all fishing with flies is to imitate the food chain the water has to offer to the fish, which these two patterns do.

The very first time I ever went fishing for trout was at Bennett Springs in 1975 using a spinning rod and salmon eggs down by the old wooden bridge, seeing how fast I could catch my limit. Then we started venture up into zone #2 throwing Rooster tails etc. Then I became interested in Fly rods watching others catch far more fish than I could imagine. Man you talk about a big learning curve. I would use the fly rod for about an hour, usually with no positive results, then throw it in the trunk of the car and grab the spinning rod.

Finally made up my mind to leave the spinning rod at home & force myself how to catch trout with a fly rod, used plenty of glow-balls back in them days and threw, chuck and duck, a lot of Marabou jigs towards the dam.

I do not judge or look down on people based on how or where they fish, and I think the vast majority of fly fisherman feel the same way. Now I do look down on people regardless whether using flies/bait if they keep over the limit or violate other regulations. I was always taught to respect the law. I hate seeing fly fishermen shuffle to catch their fish. Ethics do come into play everyday of our life whether or not there is a written law saying you can or can't do something. I guess this is why the majority of the laws are written for the minority.

I don't understand how you determined fly fishermen are "better educated, economically better off, and more inclined to vote"

I see a lot of VERY nice high speed fishing boats at Taney with fishermen using power bait, worms or whatever. Does the fact they own such a boat make them better educated, economically better off, and more inclined to vote? I think not. Heck! I think it is great people in this country are able to make their choice of how they spend their leisure time.

I agree with your comments about how bad some of the laws are. It makes me sick to think the MDR can issue a permit for a large Confined Animal Feeding operation in the watershed of Roaring River. I think it was great when Missouri changed their definition of a fly, which now allow a fly to have rubber legs like the Madam X which have been allowed in many other states with far tougher regulations than Missouri, such as banning lead, for many years.

I guess the answer to all of this is to have respect and treat others as you would want to be treated. Something which is seriously lacking in this country today, and above all don't judge a person my the rod or bait he uses or the clothes he wears.