Comment Thread - Shuffling

[Phil Lilley]

Take my word for it... it wouldn't last long. I've had some experience with unapproved signs.

But you might ask MDC - Chris Vitello - about a design that they would approve... it might fly.

[jOrOb]

Side poll,

Does anybody honestly think a sign (or multiple signs) will stop shufflers? How many really believe that education is the issue. Look at all of the ex kickers that are here. The education that stopped them from shuffling was just part of their development into fly fishermen (or fisherwomen of course). My opinion is that most kickers are really new or have already decided that they were going to kick regardless. Most of the new guys will learn pretty quickly and stop, especially with great forums and willing teachers like we have here.

I wish I had a better answer, because I don't like shuffling, but I don't. I don't think it is enforceable, and therefore a waste of time to outlaw it. More laws on the books that we cannot (or will not) enforce is not a solution.

I don't think changing stocking will help either. You can have lots of fish or big fish. That is the way of the world. Most people would prefer lots of fish to big fish.

That is my take anyway.

jOrOb

[mizzouflyfisher]

When I first started thinking about the question of shuffling, I was totally against it (i.e. ticket everyone and let them work it out). That's because I don't shuffle, don't see the fun in shuffling, and would find it very frustrating to try and get my flies that close without catching myself or getting tangled. My question is, how many shufflers really shuffle frequently? I would think that most people that engage in shuffling are people that don't fish very often. When my girlfriend goes fishing with me, she doesn't actively shuffle her feet, but she drifts flies right below her because the fish use her as a current break. She doesn't have fun unless she is catching fish, and I know for a fact that her casting skills are pretty horrible. So, either she makes the commitment to improve her skills (which we all know takes a long time) or she has fun when she goes once every couple of months. I certainly agree that shuffling causes harm to the stream and isn't sporting (unless you consider figuring out the proper cadence for your feet to be sporting), I don't consider it to be an issue that should be banned for the reason of preventing people from catching fish. That being said, I see the need for more information being disseminated regarding the impacts of shuffling on the ecosystem. I believe there are small signs at Taney now, but I can't remember, so obviously they aren't doing a whole lot of good. I would much rather see more attention devoted to protecting browns (catch & release year round) or preventing snagging (as you can obviously tell when somebody is actively attempting to snag fish). Much more harm is done to the fish population by snagging fish (especially large ones) and fighting them to exhaustion than catching some fish by shuffling.

Mizzouflyfisher

[Micheal Kyle]

Fellow disgruntled anglers,

I addressed this topic during the open Conservation forum in Springfield this past fall.

There is already a Missouri State Statue concering "Destruction of the Streambed". There is not a need for a law specifically targeting shuffling; it is already covered in this Missouri State Statue. Why are individuals not being issued citations for this illegal act.

MDC Officials stated individuals have been ticketed for this violation. The biggest problem the area Conservation Officers are having concerning this is prosecution. The prosecting attorney and Associate Circuit Court judge are dimissing the charges, due to the fact that the ticketed individuals are stating that "their feet were cold" or "they had stumbled while walking through the streambed".

If their feet are cold, get out of the water! If they are stumbling while walking through the streambed, they need to pay more attention to were they are going rather than their lure/fly at their feet! Prosecution shows NO TOLLERANCE towards traffic or game violations. Why do they let this violation of a Missouri State Statue slide by?

MDC Officials stated they have no control over the prosecution of these individuals and to inform these individuals that what they are doing is unethical and illegal.

Then I threw this curve ball at them:

If one confronts an angler to inform them that disturbing the streambed/shuffling is unethical and illegal, you can be in violation of a Missouri State Statue concerning "Angler Harassment". This Law was mainly created for anglers fishing around boat docks on area lakes or being tormented by boats towing skiers, wake boards, and tubes as well as personal watercraft, but can also include situation as this.

MDC Officials had NO comment on this.

So here is the question, what is an ethical, law biding angler to do?

MDC Officials can only do so much. Stop complaining to them. They are trying to do their job concerning this, as well as many other issues. Address this issue with the Taney County prosecuting attorney and Associate Circuit Court judge. This would be a GREAT program for the Trout Unlimited Club in Branson to have. I would drive an hour to see what their real concern and comments are about this. If they show no interest in this, inform them that you are considering voting in a new prosectutor and judge for Taney County, unless their veiws change on this subject.

jim

[Danoinark]

Excellent Michael, good stuff. Sometimes you have to take a politcal action stance. Nothing wrong with anglers and other like minded folks lobbying these issues.

Also nothing to keep a conservation minded person/angler from videotaping a bit of the shuttling, ie: stumbling, and my feet are cold pictures...then video taping the offenders getting into their vehicles, and uh, video taping the license plate. Course one might want to do this incognito, especially if the violator is a big boy ..but seriously I see nothing wrong with that, and I am not even sure its harrassment...Dano

[Kicknbass]

There is already a Missouri State Statue concering "Destruction of the Streambed". There is not a need for a law specifically targeting shuffling; it is already covered in this Missouri State Statue. Why are individuals not being issued citations for this illegal act.

I thought that there might be laws on the books already that could be used against the stream dancers if an officer was so compelled. It is irrelevant if the prosecutor is going to minimize the law. It is still a huge inconvenience for the person cited. Agents in the field showing a presence is the best form of deterrent to most game law violations.

[hoover25]

There is already a Missouri State Statue concering "Destruction of the Streambed". There is not a need for a law specifically targeting shuffling; it is already covered in this Missouri State Statue. Why are individuals not being issued citations for this illegal act.

First...I DO NOT like shufflers any more than you do.

That said: Taneycomo is NOT a streambed...its an impoundment, a unique impoundment, but still an impoundment. Nobody gives a hoot if people shuffle along the bank at TR or BS, why would (a judge) care is someone "shuffles" at Taney.

I think that education is the key in this case because I'd bet a shiney new nickle that not one "shuffler" would actually get procecuted.

Personally I always catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If you see some angler not obeying the rules....instead of getting your panties in a bunch, maybe try to talk to them and "educate them." I have done this one MANY occasions and it almost always ends up with the angler in question thanking me.

Just my two pesos.

[OnTheFly]

I voted for no change....The MDC either don’t, won't or can't enforce that laws they have now with any regularity.

The two issues I would like to see addressed before shuffling would be:

1) Boat speed in the wading sections of the river

2) Tournament trout fishing.

But first I think there needs to be more effort spent in enforcing current regulations.

[Micheal Kyle]

When I have come across someone shuffling, I hoop and holler when I catch a fish and even work harder to catch more fish in their veiw. In many instances, they have asked me what I was doing to catch so many fish. I show them what I am doing and the fly or flies I use, and inform them that shuffling in not the correct way to fish. Being as friendly and helpful as possible. Several of them, changed their way of fishing and started using the new techniques I showed them. Unfortunately, some did not. You can win some, lose some.

A large number of us who participate with this forum and fish Taneycomo are accomplished fly fishers and tiers. Why not challenge ourselves to fish harder in the veiw of these shufflers. Hopefully, they will be willing to become better, more ethical fishers with our help and assistance. Lets approach this problem a more gentlemanly way. Fly fishing is the Gentlemans' Sport, women and children included.

jim

[vakcmo]

I think it should remain as is. What scientific proof is there that this causes harm? Why do you care if people catch fish? If the fish is not hurt just caught and released what is the issue. You may say that the shuffling damages the bottom but what happens when 50000CFS of water comes out from the dam. I would call this shuffling in a big way. But then again I do not get to fish everyday like many of you. I have limited time when I visit to fish and if I do not catch fish I don't go. If others follow suit you have no revenue to support your business. People want to catch fish and have fun catching allot of fish.

If you’re not challenged enough catching fish they way you do don’t worry about how others catch their fish. Remember they pay your bills