Comment Thread - Shuffling

[gonefishin]

The more I read about this the more inclined I am to keep my vote no change. I dont really see how this can be enforced without taking away a lot of other legal activities. For example a really dedicated fly fisherman who wants match the hatch gets out his little net and kicks the bottom to get a sample could be cited for streambed destruction, boaters could be cited for streambed destruction, wadeing would obviously have to be outlawed, the dam would have to be shut down, fossil hunters and rock hounds would have to be outlawed and on and on. There would have to be parameters and I just don't see how it could be done without inadvertently taking away a lot of other legal activities.

[Randall]

its all in the wording. if the wording outlines only acts of disturbing the streambed for the purpose of causing fish to feed, fossil hunting, boating, wading, and the given example of hatch matching would still be legal, while shuffling would not.

[FJ80]

This hot topic has been discussed countless times over the years and there has been a lot of time and energy put into the discussion. Shuffling is a symptom of the bigger and larger issue, that being the conservation ethic. True, one can't say, without scientific study, that shuffling is more detreimental the stream environment than the thousands of angler hours spent per year in the upper catch and release area. But lets get back to the heart of the issue, stewardship of the natural resource. With the population of man ever increasing, there will continue to be added stress to any ecosytem. Therefore, it is more and more important that all who use the resource use it so that the next person doesn't only get to enjoy the same resource, but maybe an even better one.

There will always be the extreme environmentalist that don't want anyone to use/exploit the resources and there will be despots on the opposite spectrum that believe it is their right to do whatever they want. The trick is to land in the middle and find the balance. Wading is not analagous to shuffling the same way hiking is not analagous to mtn. bike riding or horse back riding.

I would like to see this much attention and energy put towards water quality issues in general. There are other issues worthy of attention that affect the quality of fishing in the Ozarks as a whole. There are organizations "upstream" of Taney trying to protect water quality in the region. If you aren't involved, get involved.

If your interested:

http://www.jrbp.missouristate.edu/

www.trlwq.org

http://www.whiteriverbasin.org/index.shtml

[gonefishin]

FJ80

You the man. Finally the voice of reason.

gonefishin

[Rapala Man]

I don't like the practice... now that I know what it is and why it is bad for the habitat. I have kicked up quite a bit myslef in Tanny, but not doing it intentionally, but because I am a pretty big guy (6'3", 270#) and a bit of an oaf in swift water. So, I can honestly say that I have not shuffled to catch more fish, but I have technically shuffled getting from one place to another. Here in lies my delema, I would rather focus on education and voluntary cooperation than legislation. We don't need our courts clogged with unitentional shufflers. I would rather see a large sign in the Tanny parking lot by the dam educating anglers.

Now that I know what the effects are, I will try even harder not to be an oaf in the water.

Education yes. Legislation, not yet. Lets try education first.

[gonefishin]

its all in the wording. if the wording outlines only acts of disturbing the streambed for the purpose of causing fish to feed, fossil hunting, boating, wading, and the given example of hatch matching would still be legal, while shuffling would not.

I understand that but, how does a person word that without opening the door to making legal activities illegal? I remember a few years ago when the State of Mo wanted to define legal sex and actually ended up outlawing sex between married couples then when they tried to fix that they outlawed all sex.

A person has to be careful when trying to legislate ethics. The laws can backfire.

gonefishin

[Randall]

shuffling: any activity that involves purposely disrupting the stream or lake bed with the intention of causing game fish to feed. any person seen dragging their feet along, or kicking the bottom of the water body, and fishing in the wake of their disturbance shall be defined as a shuffler.

i won't lie, i just got back from the bar and came up with this wording. find me a legal activity it outlaws and i'll change it up.

[gonefishin]

shuffling: any activity that involves purposely disrupting the stream or lake bed with the intention of causing game fish to feed. any person seen dragging their feet along, or kicking the bottom of the water body, and fishing in the wake of their disturbance shall be defined as a shuffler.

i won't lie, i just got back from the bar and came up with this wording. find me a legal activity it outlaws and i'll change it up.

Randall:

The way I see it is the line about "any person seen dragging their feet along" could be used, or abused however you want to look at it, to outlaw legal activities or to keep certain 'undesirable' people from fishing in a given area. If you will scroll back up to Back Country Outfitters post you will see a perfect example of what I am talking about. He even admits the law was meant to address a different situation but he is willing to have it used/abused to adress this issue.

Don't get me wrong, if there is a reasonable and responsible way to outlaw the act I am for it. However as is always the case it is difficult to legislate ethic's without inadvertently causing more problems. This is why the MDC consistantly says "we dont want to legislate ethics".

When talking about the ethical management of natural resources you also have to take in account that trout are a manmade resource in Missouri, not a natural resource. How would that argument be resolved?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Why do they let this violation of a Missouri State Statue slide by?

They shouldn't allow it to just because the prosecution rate is very low. I wouldn't think too many people would want to come back to Taney county and go to court, win or lose.

Hoover the White river emerges when they aren't generating and I think the flow proves that.

I would think that signs describing shuffling, pointing out the damage it can cause, and telling people they can be ticketed for it, wouldn't hurt.

[Randall]

Randall:

The way I see it is the line about "any person seen dragging their feet along" could be used, or abused however you want to look at it, to outlaw legal activities or to keep certain 'undesirable' people from fishing in a given area. If you will scroll back up to Back Country Outfitters post you will see a perfect example of what I am talking about. He even admits the law was meant to address a different situation but he is willing to have it used/abused to adress this issue.

Don't get me wrong, if there is a reasonable and responsible way to outlaw the act I am for it. However as is always the case it is difficult to legislate ethic's without inadvertently causing more problems. This is why the MDC consistantly says "we dont want to legislate ethics".

When talking about the ethical management of natural resources you also have to take in account that trout are a manmade resource in Missouri, not a natural resource. How would that argument be resolved?

some laws on the books are there to keep people sporting. it is illegal to bait deer in missouri. are there any effects from baiting that harm the population? none that i can think of. outlawing the baiting of deer, in my opinion, was an ethical decision.

you didn't quote all of what i said. any person seen dragging or kicking their feet along the bottom of the body of water AND fishing in the wake. if the person is not fishing in the wake of their disturbance, they are not shuffling.