Comment Thread - Shuffling

[Danoinark]

I would think that signs describing shuffling, pointing out the damage it can cause, and telling people they can be ticketed for it, wouldn't hurt.

....and sounds like a great project for the TU chapter, and might even mean more than coming from Government.....Dano

[crappiefisherman]

Oh for petes sake

[NJ John]

Illegal

[Phil Lilley]

You know the comparson between baiting deer and baiting fish is the best example I've seen- thanks Randall.

In Kansas, and I'm sure other state, baiting deer is legal (Michigan too). It is illegal in Missouri and I believe Arkansas. Chumming in Arkansas is "illegal?"... I think it is. Shuffling is considered chumming. It's legal in Missouri to chum. May be the issue is making chumming illegal in Missouri? That would be a hard task. BUT IF other states like Arkansas, Colorado and New Mexico have outlawed shuffling, why can't Missouri? Why can't MDC at least seriously consider it- host public forums and discuss it with the public and make a definitive decision.

That's what we need to ask for- a day in "court" so as to voice the public's opinion and then let the professional managers make their call once and for all.

I will make this an issue with the local TU chapter.

[Danoinark]

Thats sound and very logical Phil.

Dano

[CaptainT16]

You know the comparson between baiting deer and baiting fish is the best example I've seen- thanks Randall.

In Kansas, and I'm sure other state, baiting deer is legal (Michigan too). It is illegal in Missouri and I believe Arkansas. Chumming in Arkansas is "illegal?"... I think it is. Shuffling is considered chumming. It's legal in Missouri to chum. May be the issue is making chumming illegal in Missouri? That would be a hard task. BUT IF other states like Arkansas, Colorado and New Mexico have outlawed shuffling, why can't Missouri? Why can't MDC at least seriously consider it- host public forums and discuss it with the public and make a definitive decision.

That's what we need to ask for- a day in "court" so as to voice the public's opinion and then let the professional managers make their call once and for all.

I will make this an issue with the local TU chapter.

That is a very valid point. Makes total sense to me, and wouldn't understand why MDC couldn't pass a shuffling law.

[hoover25]

Hoover the White river emerges when they aren't generating and I think the flow proves that.

I have been wrong many times before (just ask my wife)....but I can find no eviedence that there is (legally) any streambed in Taney....its just a lake with exotic coldwater carp that we all love. The impoundment/steam boundries are set (using map coordinates, landmarks, etc.) If TR lake level falls even more than it has already, the boundries for the James River-Tablerock Lake do not change....it must be a constant.

I would think that signs describing shuffling, pointing out the damage it can cause, and telling people they can be ticketed for it, wouldn't hurt.

Amen, I would agree. I think the threat of tickets is a good idea even if the have NO chance of them sticking in court.

[King Ming]

Hey jim over at Backcountry, great job pointing out the Missouri State Statues concerning "Destruction of the Streambed" and "Angler Harrassment."

It is really disappointing that the Prosectutuing Attorney and Associate Circuit Court Judge dismiss these cases on Stream Destruction.

Laws and Definitions are written in BLACK and WHITE, but everyones interpretation is a different shade of gray. Some of you need to look up these Laws and definitions to see just exactly what they cover and what is not, before you even consider committing on this subject. Unfortunately, There have been a few responses to this forum since jim's entry, to which some of you are reading between the lines or just not paying attention, and do not even have a clue as what these Laws cover. In fact, why don't you just come out of the closet and admit that you are a shuffler, rather than beat around the bush. As well as, stop trying to find a new way to beat the system.

Stream, river and creek bed by definition are the same, " the channel in which a river flows or has flowed." Daming a river, stream or creek bed forms a lake or pond. Lake Taneycomo, which was formed by the construction of Power Site Dam, is still the White River. Unless, the river bed was removed and tossed aside, do not recall that happening.

Shuffling in Table Rock and other area lakes, hmmmm, that is a good one. What was the intended purpose of these shufflers? Did they loose a piece of fishing equipment and where trying to find it? Where they trying to locate a dock anchor, broken cable or underwater bracing? Kids swimming in the water? Or possibly a couple enjoying themselves in the water? Maybe this act that you witnessed should be brought to the attention of the local authorities and Corps of Engineers.

Insect sampling can be done by only those who have been issued permits or authorized to do so. If you do not have the proper authorization, you are not allowed to remove insect life from the water. Partake in the Missouri Stream Team, Take the nescessary classes to do such activities legally.

I was at Taneycomo this Sunday, Feb 26, and seen only two people intentionally shuffling out of the about 150 fishing. That is 1.5% of the fisherman shuffling that I observed during my 5 hours on the water. These numbers are just so detrimental to our once famed fishery.

Are there other issues that we really need to focus on, that are more important to harming our fishery? HMMM, that is a good question? These next two items are good places to start, as well as a couple of others.

Here was one thing that was brought up and should be taken into consideration, WATER QUALITY. The water quality really went downhill with the area land development in the late 70's and 80's. Now with all the new construction, a lot of these older homes, resorts and such on the Lake have been changed from septic to community/city sewer systems. There are probably a few out there that still need to be converted. I remember days fishing Taneycomo from a boat and floating by houses and smelling the raw sewage leaking from their septic systems. As well as, the floating stuff going down the river. Now with this Branson Landing construction being done, who knows what will happen to the Lake Taneycomo fishery. More than likely no consideration was given to it, because too many people were more interested in how much money they were going to make. The Power of the almighty Dollar.

Another issue that was mentioned and needs to be addressed is the boats coming above the boat ramp. Also, these boaters give no consideration to the wading anglers or their safety. I think that boats should not be allowed above the boat ramp, whether generating or not. They cannot safely navigate up the river without getting close to wading anglers and jeopardizing their safety as well as their passengers in the boat. If a guide has to take their clients above the boat ramp in a boat, can't be much of a guide if they are willing to jeopardize someone elses saftey. The biggest advantage a boat offers is giving one access to water not accessable to wading anglers, why not use it to your fullest advantage. Lake Taneycomo is a 23 mile coldwater fishery and I cannot believe you can't catch fish from a boat other than above the boat ramp in the middle of a bunch of wading anglers. Maybe some of you need to learn or refine your techniques on catching fish from a boat, below the boat ramp. jim, up at Backcountry, fishes from a boat quite a bit in Taneycomo, you may want to get with him and find out what he does to catch fish.

In reference to chumming. I asked Chris Vitello about chumming or baiting an area for catfish. He stated chumming/baiting for catfish is illegal in Missouri. I would not think there is an exemption for trout.

Lets put our focus on more important issues at hand on Taneycomo. Here are a few to start with: Water Quality, boating safety, baitfishing in the trophy area, keeping of slot sized fish to name a few, snagging of fish and not to mention several others.

Regards,

King Ming

[Phil Lilley]

Everyone has brought up good points... but I would caution the tone.

We can agree to disagree but we also can agree not to condescend for activity that is presently legal.

Water quality issues, boating saftey, breaking rules in the trophy area are all good topics and have been discussed- and should be discussed further. For clarity sake, I would suggest they'd be discussed on different topic headings.

Thanks guys.

[vakcmo]

Who cares how people fish. Isn't this a stocked lake? Why is this an issue. Get a life people!! There are many more import issue to look at than people shuffling their feet. Just because someone does not fish the way you do you must you make an issue of it. And since when do ethics come to play in fishing. What about all the building, traffic, crowds of people and potential for pollution coming into the LAKE. I would be more concerned about the development around the lake than how people fish it.

Why don't you guys worry about more important issues than people shuffling their feet.