Be Heard On Regulation Changes

[oneshot]

Come on, guys, I just ain't buying this "fixed income" stuff. If you can't afford $20 you can't afford to buy ammunition or the electricity to run the freezer or the gas to go to town or drive to your land. As for the landowner stuff, I agree that 80 acres as the cut-off point is probably too much, but I also agree that 5 acres or 10 acres is too little. I own 40 acres, and I'd say that two hunters could safely hunt with rifles on it, but it all depends upon a lot of factors from topography to food plots to proximity to houses, etc. so I'm not sure what the arbitrary cut-off point should be.

Well it seems you don't know me or the people around here.I am one of the very few that have Electric and the only reason I have it is because a woman from out of state decided I needed it wheather I wanted it or not and my Kids decided I needed to have a Well instead of getting water out of the spring.

As far as Bullets I make my own,get Powder and Lead as cheap as I can.One time I had two Tags and three Bullets my wife said that would be enough.First shot I missed but my aim was true on the next two.

I live on my property.With the lay off the land I have three Stands set up where there is no way anyone will be shooting towards the other.Plus if they want they can shoot from the house which has been done before.

Most people in this area have small acerage and no Electric so they Can it and really depend on the meat.

oneshot

[Al Agnew]

Are you kidding me? In every issue I've worked on and dealt with MDC, it seemed to me they were pretty much scared to death of what the hunting and fishing community would say and do. I've always had the gripe that they are much too conservative when considering new or different regulations. I've had MDC people tell me that the worst fear they have is people contacting the commissioners directly. When the commissioners get complaints they don't like it one bit, and let the MDC people know they aren't happy in no uncertain terms. You might think you're not being heard, but consider this...on most issues, there are always a lot of people on the other side who are being just as vocal as you are.

How much public land would be enough? That's a hard question to answer. Again, I ask you, as long as people are willingly selling their land to MDC, what is the harm in it? Unless you're a real estate developer or otherwise wanting to buy the same land and being unable to compete with MDC, I just don't see what the gripe is. Tax revenue? MDC makes payments in lieu of taxes on every parcel of land they own. So, since I'm really sure that Missouri is in absolutely no danger of becoming a state that's owned by MDC, I guess my answer is, all they can buy. The more land they have, the fewer people will be using any particular piece of it, including the piece I happen to be wanting to use at the time.

However, I will say this...the original plan was to buy a lot of land in the early years of the sales tax, then switch over to improving infrastructure on that land--everything from building small lakes to roads and parking lots and restrooms. I've seen a lot less land buying in recent years, but I'm not seeing the amount of infrastructure improvement I expected. I'd also like to see some of the money spent on more agents and better enforcement. So no, I'm not completely happy with MDC on several fronts. But compared to other state agencies that depend upon license sales and government tax money or else legislative appropriations, MDC is terrific. And IF you got the sales tax repealed, it wouldn't make MDC more responsive, just a whole lot poorer, so poor that they'd probably have to sell off a lot of the land they own simply because they couldn't pay for the upkeep. Or else...they'd have to raise permit fees a WHOLE lot more. That's what I mean by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[oneshot]

Kind of off subject but since we're bringing up MDC land what are your thoughts on Walk in Areas as they have in other states?

oneshot

[Trevor K]

I agree completely with Al. I'm a wildlife ecology and conservation major. I'm not saying that makes me an expert on the topic or that my opinion matters any more than anyone elses. I do think that the MDC is wise to buy up as much land as it can while it's available. Land is developed everyday, and once it's gone, it's gone. I know everywhere I look it seems like there is a new housing development going in. If they don't buy land now, they may never have a chance to get it later. I don't own a piece of land of my own, so I do appreciate the MDC purchasing land for conservation areas. So pretty much all of my hunting and fishing is done on public land. I envy those of you who are fortunate enough to have private land. Also, who do you think is the reason that there are any deer or wildlife of any kind around? Market hunting and poor land management practices nearly wiped out deer in Missouri. The population was down to 400 in the whole state at one point, and all of those were in the southern half. Where do you think all those trout that are stocked in Taneycomo come from? I realize that the money the MDC gets comes from taxes and the sale of licenses, so it does come from the people, but they are doing the best they can with that money. Other states are trying to get similar taxes to fund their conservation organizations. Just like everyone, I don't agree with every little thing that the MDC does. Yes, I would like to see some more enforement. No matter how many agents they hire though, there are always going to be people that break the law. I have seen infrastructure improvements on several areas around where I live. These include improving boat ramps and other facilities. I could talk about this subject for a long time, but I'm sure everyone already has their minds made up. I just think that before you go and totally bash the MDC you should take a look at some of the positive things they've done. I'm sure many people will completely disagree with me, but I had to at least say what I thought.

[bigredbirdfan]

So given the current deer population explosion and need for additional control, it is ok for creating new fees, reducing harvest numbers for the purpose of buying more land. More land, more regulations, resulting in less enforcement. You guys have helped me see the logic. Now if i can apply this slop to the elections today somehow.

[trout fanatic]

Fact is, most states charge more than Missouri. It makes me wonder though, where the line is. About 4 years ago I stopped hunting because it just wasn't fun for me anymore and it sucked money from my fishing funds. Haven't bought a tag since. Where is the point where others start doing the same? Don't get me wrong by no stretch of the imagination is $20 too much for a deer tag-but most folks also do other types of hunting, if you buy a small game license, migratory, fed duck stamp, deer tags/w bonuses not to mention spring/fall turkey the sting is sharper. If people stop buying hunting tags in the numbers they used to. Hunting and fishing is a privilege-but a privilege that we pay for, if we stop the lessons learned may take decades to overcome. I keep reading where the numbers of hunting and fishing licenses sold in every state is less than it was in the past. So the response is to RAISE fees? Is this likely to increase the numbers of hunters afield.

I may be wrong (probably am) but it seems to me that the state should pull its head out of a very dark place and re-think this strategy.

[Trevor K]

I don't think that the price of tags is the cause of decreasing numbers of hunters overall. I'm sure it has some effect, but I don't think that is the real cause

[rainbow]

This is not about MDC buying more land with the sales tax. This is about infringing on the right of land owners to use thier property as they see fit without having to pay for the priveledge of doing so. All of these outdoor boards are buzzing on this one. I live and hunt on 25 acres and use the free tags. Didn't even mind when they said you had to go to the store to pick them up. When I hunt off my land I buy tags and have no problem doing so but on my land I should not have to pay to hunt. To send an electronic comment to MDC go to this link.MDC comment page If you want to read an exhausive thread about this go over to MWT and look at this one

MWT landowner fee thread

[jdmidwest]

Last spring while I sit thru the Hunters Education Program with my 12 year old daughter so we can hunt together, the Agent hosting one part of the show got off on Landowners. Seems like the county of his jurisdiction had over 1200 landowner permits that he could not verify that the permitee was listed on any deeds for any land in the county that was applied for. 1200 x $17 = $20,400 in one county. It was obviously happening state wide and may have been getting worse with the telecheck system. I kinda figured that something was coming down the pipes back then.

The original system required a landowner to apply from a form mailed in each summer and I think had to be completed by August. As a farmer, based on amount of land owned, we would get x amount of bonus any-deer tags to thin the herd. There was even a tag for crop damage that a landowner could distribute to any hunter to add to his quota. Then everything went to the computer system, you walk in to the local permit vendor, tell them you are a landowner, and the machine spit out your tags. There was no accountability. I am sure the system was abused. Part of the new system is a registry again where landowners will have to provide proof of ownership of the land they are applying for. I don't feel that there is any problem with that. The amount of land should be dropped. Current system of 5 acres has been abused, and it may have been compounded by the telecheck system. This same agent loves the telecheck system, claims he has busted many buying a tag and telechecking an animal in the parking lot of the place where they buy the tag. Personally, I like it, I can kill a deer, call it in, and have it dressed out and in the fridge within and hour from the time I kill it. Combined with the warmer seasons the last few years, I have better quality meat. Better than dragging it into the nearest check station 20 miles away then back.

MDC has had a tough year like all other entities that rely on a budget. Nobody could have figured in the increases in Fuel, Material, Energy, and other factors that have went up this year. Sales tax revenues are down all over because personal spending has been down. They have had a cut in pay this year on top of all the cost increases.

I am with Al, don't bash them unless you think out the facts and see why they are doing things. They are here to help us with the things we all enjoy.

[tadman]

Bigredbird, I'm not sure where you got your education at, young feller, but that is where you and Missourians got screwed. Don't speak for me as I can do my own talking and I will tell you I haven't got screwed by the MDC. What kind of person are you to come on here and mean mouth them? You must like to fish and hunt or you wouldn't be on this board.

That is also some pretty sharp talk in your post. Does your mommy know how you are talking on here? As far as the price of tags go, that is sure is some cheap entertainment. And ya know what, I don't have to get my hand stamped or pay to reenter. Just pay once a year and enjoy.