Here We Go Again!

[Chief Grey Bear]

You can type as slow as you think if you want, as usual, I am way ahead.

Here we go, I am typing slowly again,

We don't need the new laws, the ones we have are sufficient to combat the problem. I am not the one that proposed any new laws or taxes. Your buddy did.

Our government officials should spend their time on more important things. And they most likely would if it wasn't for these idiots.

We need more law enforcement in the areas. I am confused? I thought they had more important things to do?

Business owners should be in control of their patrons while they use their products. You don't seem to think this about guns? Rental cars? I smell big brother lurking over my shouler.

Parents should raise their kids properly so they don't display this behavior. Who says they didn't. Did you ever act this way in front of mom?

Meanwhile, if you know there are going to be crowds, drunk or sober, fishing and a good time on the river is probably going to be ruined. Fish a less crowded river and enjoy it during the weekend. I do. Did you not read that?

I really don't know how you can get politics involved in this. You did read the very first post on this thead? The one you started this all off with? It was about a politician that wanted to pass a law? A republican. So between him and soggy, that is where I got it.

[soggyfeet]

You can type as slow as you think if you want, as usual, I am way ahead.

Hang on now Chief I dont want anymore politics involved. I want the people to control the issue. If we start giveing business to responsible outfitters that sone some simple things to make the float more enjoyable for everyone then the laws that are set into place already will work fine.

[jdmidwest]

You can type as slow as you think if you want, as usual, I am way ahead.

Yes, as usual, you are way too far ahead and not paying attention here!

***We don't need the new laws, the ones we have are sufficient to combat the problem. (I am not the one that proposed any new laws or taxes. Your buddy did.) I Did Not Vote For The Guy or Ever Say You Did..

***Our government officials should spend their time on more important things. (And they most likely would if it wasn't for these idiots.) I Think We Agree On That But I Am Not Sure.

***We need more law enforcement in the areas. (I am confused? I thought they had more important things to do?) MDC Has Better Things to Do, Not The Local Sheriff Or Forestry Rangers Who Should Control The Problems...

***Business owners should be in control of their patrons while they use their products. (You don't seem to think this about guns? Rental cars? I smell big brother lurking over my shouler.) Gun Shops Do Background Checks on ALL of Their Gun Buyers.. I think the smell is something backing up in your waders!

***Parents should raise their kids properly so they don't display this behavior. (Who says they didn't. Did you ever act this way in front of mom?) Don't even know what you are trying to say.

***Meanwhile, if you know there are going to be crowds, drunk or sober, fishing and a good time on the river is probably going to be ruined. Fish a less crowded river and enjoy it during the weekend. I do. (Did you not read that?) I did, just making sure you got it.

***I really don't know how you can get politics involved in this. (You did read the very first post on this thead? The one you started this all off with? It was about a politician that wanted to pass a law? A republican. So between him and soggy, that is where I got it. ) Sure I did, I was the one who posted the article. I thought he was an idiot for trying to pass it and is wasting tax payer dollars pursuing it. I did not vote for him, not my district, definitely not my veiws. I don't care what party he is, I thought the idea was dumb. Never was it a Conservative/Liberal issue till you tossed it up!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Right on there JD. No debating your logic.

Soggy - I agree with your last post. And they have proved in just how far they will go in controlling issue. Not very far it seems.

[bigredbirdfan]

I love how the obvious is to burden a business owner already challanged with all kinds of governement crap (one of which is unpaid tax collector) with the need to baby sit their customers.

Or the better approach. Prohibition on streams.

I have an idea. Lets keep these U.S Citizens off the really good streams (keeping them for ourselves) and give them the really undesirable streams to party on? Problem solved.

Can you say C O M M U N I S M?

[soggyfeet]

Question for those who think the underage drinking on the rivers and the campgrounds is not the responsibility of the outfitter. How is it any different if a parent allows an underage drinking party than for an outfitter to profit by allowing it on his/her property. The biggest problem I have is the underage drinkers. Granted some of the older ones cause some problems as well but for the most part I've noticed the young ones doing it. Outfitters knows this goes on but doesnt do a thing about it. If a parent had a few underage drinkers over to the house supervised and everyone knew about about the party it would be all over the news. Everyone knows this goes on in thses campgrounds but just look the other way, I know I used to be a underage drinker. The outfitter wouldnt sell to me but the guy over 21 behind me could and just hand it to me. So in a way the outfitters are responsible for it. I'm also not saying that all outfitters are like this I just have one in mind right now. Its gotten so bad down there that there is no grass and the campground is wall to wall tents, cars, campers, and minors drinking by the hundereds. My waterpatrol should do a sting on the campgrounds some Friday and Saturday night. Now I know some of you will say what are they hurting but the bottom line is it is illegal.

[Wayne SW/MO]

The problem is that those that party hard dominate the rivers, trash them and generally keep others from enjoying them. Floating and fishing don't clash, its bad behavior and that's fueled by alcohol and people looking for an obscure place to misbehave at the expense of others.

Unfortunately. like Al Agnew and others, I can remember the before and after. The Niangua is a great river without the blanket of canoers who could care less about the rivers or others who attempt to use it for legitimat porposes.

[strangercreek]

I floated the Niangua for years as a kid but have stayed away for 7-8 years. Do some of the campgrounds actually have security guards now? I can't even imagine that. I have seen alot of scumbags on the river, but the campgrounds weren't that bad. I guess things change. On my last float I did notice a few markers that looked like a drowning had taken place (similar to highway crosses, markers ,etc). I guess this doesn't deter idiots, but then again niether do drunk driving deaths.

From what I have seen, I can imagine most of the nudity isn't worth seeing, and might even give you nightmares

[bclift65706]

law enforcement try hard on the Niangua to keep the minors from drinking and trashing but you take the number of people and the number of officers I will geuss to be something like 500 to 1 the last time I was there every outfitter had every thing rented I could be wrong but I beleave it was 7000 canoes and rafts on the water.If this number is correct how many people is this. I saw 8 agents and they were doing their job it was like a DWI check point for minors but every boat full of minors the would drag to the bank 10 would get through.

[Wayne SW/MO]

The Missouri DNR dropped the ball 25 years ago when they didn't push for laws to regulate the number of rental canoes on the river. The end result of this would have solved virtually all of the problems we see today. Had they been able to issue X number of permits, require some responsibility from the permit holders, and taxed the permits to provide law enforcement and clean up, they oversight of responsible canoers would have been invaluable. The explosion in rentals started about '85 and its been non stop since.