Heating Issues

[hoglaw]

Not sure how much anyone can help here, but I figured I'd give it a shot since the plumbers I'm calling are closed today.

I have two sources of heat in my home. I have central heat and air that utilizes a heat pump and heating coils. I also have a propane fireplace that's rated to heat 3400 sq. ft. I prefer to use propane as much as possible for efficiency reasons.

I recently had my propane tank filled, and the tech locked the valve because there is a small leak somewhere in my system. I used a small tank to put pressure on the system this weekend in an effort to find the leak. I never found it with soap, but based on the smell in the house it's in the crawlspace in an area that will require me to remove all of my duct work and possibly drill through blocks to get to. This is going to be a hell of a lot of work, and would cost me thousands to get someone else to come and do it.

My question in this regard is this: Propane functions on such low pressure (10 or so psi I think) that it seems that a small leak could be fixed by some type of product that works like stopleak or fixaflat. Do plumbers use anything like this to fix leaking gas lines? It sure seems that something like that should be out there, and the alternative might be re-piping my house if I can't get at the leaking pipe.

Next, my central heat is not doing the job. My outside unit is not coming on at all, and the heater is just blowing cold air. It can keep the house at around 60 degrees, but it has to run a lot to do it. It's not a fuse or anything simple, and all the jumpers on the control are in the right position.

I'm pretty certain I'll need an HVAC person to come out for the electric heat - there's no quick fix. Does anyone have a friend in the Fayetteville area that they would reccommend? Also, if anyone works in either of the related fields and needs a lawyer, let me know. Any help is much appreciated.

[Danoinark]

Not sure how much anyone can help here, but I figured I'd give it a shot since the plumbers I'm calling are closed today.

I have two sources of heat in my home. I have central heat and air that utilizes a heat pump and heating coils. I also have a propane fireplace that's rated to heat 3400 sq. ft. I prefer to use propane as much as possible for efficiency reasons.

I recently had my propane tank filled, and the tech locked the valve because there is a small leak somewhere in my system. I used a small tank to put pressure on the system this weekend in an effort to find the leak. I never found it with soap, but based on the smell in the house it's in the crawlspace in an area that will require me to remove all of my duct work and possibly drill through blocks to get to. This is going to be a hell of a lot of work, and would cost me thousands to get someone else to come and do it.

My question in this regard is this: Propane functions on such low pressure (10 or so psi I think) that it seems that a small leak could be fixed by some type of product that works like stopleak or fixaflat. Do plumbers use anything like this to fix leaking gas lines? It sure seems that something like that should be out there, and the alternative might be re-piping my house if I can't get at the leaking pipe.

Next, my central heat is not doing the job. My outside unit is not coming on at all, and the heater is just blowing cold air. It can keep the house at around 60 degrees, but it has to run a lot to do it. It's not a fuse or anything simple, and all the jumpers on the control are in the right position.

I'm pretty certain I'll need an HVAC person to come out for the electric heat - there's no quick fix. Does anyone have a friend in the Fayetteville area that they would reccommend? Also, if anyone works in either of the related fields and needs a lawyer, let me know. Any help is much appreciated.

Hoglaw, can't help you any but I am having the same problem with my heat pump. This summer it had to be 78 before I could manually get the outside unit to come on...now it has to be 68 or below on the inside before I manually get the heat strips to work, still no outside unit.

I am suspecting a thermostat problem. I have a digital thermostat.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Whoa there. I don't see any need in removing any duct work. Unless I am missing something, the only thing you need to look at is the gas line. There should be a gas line (copper) running from your tank to the furnace. That is where the leak will be and most likely at a connection or valve. Plus any lines to the stove or water heater.

[bclift65706]

in the outside unit check the capacitor(not sure on spelling) it is the most likely cause of outside unit not working at all. Most of the time not always if it is bad it will be bulged out. Cheap fix less than $20 make sure you disconnect the power there is a shutoff attached to the house behind or next to the outside unit. Capacitor will be inside the unit.

[taxidermist]

On the heat pump check the breakers and then look at the small wire going to the outside unit. Its normally like telephone wire and a mouse or rat could have chewed it.

As for the propane leak there is a product looks like the mighty grip Billy Mays putty, that is made and recommended for propane line repairs.

if you find the leak its really a simple repair with a pipe cutter and flair fittings, you may be able to get compression fittings that dont require the flair tool.

If you are near Springfield Harbor Frieght has then for about half price of HD or lowes.

Did the tech put the pressure meter on the line to see the drop in pressure? That will tell you how bad it is and he should have used a sniffer to help find the leak. or at lest narrow down the area to look at.

[jdmidwest]

My question in this regard is this: Propane functions on such low pressure (10 or so psi I think) that it seems that a small leak could be fixed by some type of product that works like stopleak or fixaflat. Do plumbers use anything like this to fix leaking gas lines? It sure seems that something like that should be out there, and the alternative might be re-piping my house if I can't get at the leaking pipe.

Do you have any other devices that use propane in the house other than the fireplace? If not, there should only be a fitting or two to check, probably at the fireplace. At worst case, some new copper pipe and a little work.

Next, my central heat is not doing the job. My outside unit is not coming on at all, and the heater is just blowing cold air. It can keep the house at around 60 degrees, but it has to run a lot to do it. It's not a fuse or anything simple, and all the jumpers on the control are in the right position.

I don't think your outside unit should be running unless you have AC on. That is the compressor for the AC system. There should be a heating element inside the house located under the A coil that provides the heat. Sounds like it may be bad. Unless you have a heat pump or ground source system, both of which I know nothing about.

[hoglaw]

The tech that filled the tank didn't use any type of sniffer. I've eliminated all of the lines that I can get to as leak sources, leaving only one section under the ground (between the tank and the house) and another section that I can't get to under the house. In order to crawl back there, I'll have to remove the duct work or else I physically can't get to the line.

In any event, it's going to be a major pain in the butt. I was just hoping there was something they could shoot into the lines that would find the leak and plug it like a tire or radiator.

[laker67]

If the fireplace is the only propane appliance on the system, I would consider running a new gas service to it. Abandon the old service and start over. The regulator should be at the tank, if not, check to be sure that it is properly vented to outside air. Gas is heavier than air, and will collect in your crawl space until it finds a source of ignition. Hopefully you have already solved the problem.

[jdmidwest]

If there were a miracle liquid like fix a flat, it would stop up the orifices of most gas systems.

If you can smell it under the house, I think you can eliminate the tank to the house!

[Wayne SW/MO]

If the fireplace is the only propane appliance on the system, I would consider running a new gas service to it. Abandon the old service and start over. The regulator should be at the tank, if not, check to be sure that it is properly vented to outside air. Gas is heavier than air, and will collect in your crawl space until it finds a source of ignition. Hopefully you have already solved the problem.

This would be my recommendation also. The best way to find a leak is to check between fittings, you valve or plug one end and air up the other. You can use an RV air fitting on a tee with a gauge on the other opening. Pump enough pressure in to make serious soap bubbles. This was the method I used when I had to worry about it. If you re pipe, don't overlook the possibility of fishing the tubing through spots that are unreachable.

As for your heat pump, if that is what your unit is, could be anything from a thermostat to a contactor. The fact that the inside unit is operating usually eliminates the thermostat. A delay device on the contactor is a common problem. Its almost impossible for you to troubleshoot it, you would have to be able to eliminate the motor, the delay, the contactor and the signal from the thermostat. It could also be a valve in the pump system not responding, so an HVAC person is probably your only option.