Trout Stocking Issues

[tgard27]

So I have a question: does anyone object to the way that MDC does thier trout stockings for white and red ribbon stream throughout Missouri? I personally am not fond of the way that MDC stocks these white and red ribbon streams. My reasons are two fold: one, they put full grown adult trout into these streams which leaves these trout vulnerable to poaching from trout baiters ( I have no problem with people who catch and keep with bait, just don't keep over 4!) and reason number two is that people in these towns almost seem to know when these stockings will occur in advance(take Roubidoux for example). So I have a suggestion, and I am open for debate on this subject. Iowa stocks trout fry into their streams, giving each year a "hacthing" and creating a hybridized wild trout. The trout grow up in this stream and never see the stocking tubes that our trout in Missouri see. This would keep the paoching to a minimum as these "wild" trout are as spooky as real wild trout are. And this would also make it pointless of asking when the stockings are or seeing if you're buddy will give you stocking info in advanced. This would also have to help cut back on the expenses, so maybe MDC wouldn't had to cut back on stockings in the trout parks. Travis

[laker67]

So I have a question: does anyone object to the way that MDC does thier trout stockings for white and red ribbon stream throughout Missouri? I personally am not fond of the way that MDC stocks these white and red ribbon streams. My reasons are two fold: one, they put full grown adult trout into these streams which leaves these trout vulnerable to poaching from trout baiters ( I have no problem with people who catch and keep with bait, just don't keep over 4!) and reason number two is that people in these towns almost seem to know when these stockings will occur in advance(take Roubidoux for example). So I have a suggestion, and I am open for debate on this subject. Iowa stocks trout fry into their streams, giving each year a "hacthing" and creating a hybridized wild trout. The trout grow up in this stream and never see the stocking tubes that our trout in Missouri see. This would keep the paoching to a minimum as these "wild" trout are as spooky as real wild trout are. And this would also make it pointless of asking when the stockings are or seeing if you're buddy will give you stocking info in advanced. This would also have to help cut back on the expenses, so maybe MDC wouldn't had to cut back on stockings in the trout parks. Travis

I do not think that these hatchling trout would stay in the white and red zones. Most areas have a large spring near the headwaters of the blue zone. As water warms in the summer, they would move up to these areas. Also, in the fall, their natural instincts make them move upriver for spawn time. It would be great for the blue zone. Routine stockings keep fish, for a short period of time, in the red and white waters. Otherwise, bait and hardware fishermen, would have slim pickings. Do you have the red, white and blue zones in Iowa, or is it anything goes? It would be a nice concept, but I am doubtful that it would work in Missouri streams.

[Gavin]

Dunno...I always seem to be able to find holdovers in the White Ribbon areas, and I've always found plenty of fish in most of the Red Ribbon stretches. I cant see a reason to change the stocking regimine based upon what some poacher of a bunch of them might do. Trout dont reproduce in significant enough numbers to sustain the fishing pressure they recieve in Missouri, so I'd rather crack down on the poachers, and allow folks to fish for stocked fish in catchable sizes. Cheers.

[tgard27]

Well, I'm not from Iowa. I do fish at white ribbon streams, like capps and hickory. The idea that I was bringing up is not for the idea of creating a reproducing stream, but to eliminate the problem people who wait for hatchery trucks to pull up and dump out the fish. And its not one poacher, more like a whole bunch in some streams. Trout have no stream sense when they have been reared in a hatchery, so stocking fry and letting them grow into adults would create this sense of smarts. Yes, there are a few hold overs in our white ribbons, but the idea that 1200 fish last only a few weeks is a sign that more than one or two people are poaching illegally.

[ozark trout fisher]

I like the way the MDC stocks. The reason why they stock decent sized trout in white ribbon, and red ribbon areas are different. For White Ribbon Areas, they stock full grown trout, because these are put and take fisheries, and fisherman want to catch them right after the stocking, right or wrong. Red Ribbon, and the Blue Ribbon Area on the Current are stocked with 8" so that they aren't all gobbled up by other trout, suckers (I don't know if suckers actually eat small trout, but I guess they would), and smallmouth bass. Imagine how few would make it through if they stocked 3" to 4" inch trout. If 20 or 30% made it to a catchable size, I'd be shocked. I would vote to keep the stocking size the same, but I do wish they would float through stock instead of stock the access points on the larger streams. Of course that's not possible on the little creeks like Hickory or Capps. And you are right, the Roubidoux White Ribbon Area is a mess. If they ever want that creek to become anything worthwhile, they need to make the whole thing below Roubidoux Spring Red Ribbon. The current Red Ribbon Area generally has pretty warm water in the summer, and it would be great if they could add the cold upper creek to the trophy area. That could turn it into an honest year-round brown trout stream.

And definitely crack down on the poachers. These selfish people really hurt the quality of our trout streams. How about instead of just fines, maybe start giving short jail sentences for more serious offenses, (such as keeping ten 7" wild trout from Mill Creek). I bet that would discourage poaching.

Just my opinion

[Buzz]

Well, I'm not from Iowa. I do fish at white ribbon streams, like capps and hickory. The idea that I was bringing up is not for the idea of creating a reproducing stream, but to eliminate the problem people who wait for hatchery trucks to pull up and dump out the fish. And its not one poacher, more like a whole bunch in some streams. Trout have no stream sense when they have been reared in a hatchery, so stocking fry and letting them grow into adults would create this sense of smarts. Yes, there are a few hold overs in our white ribbons, but the idea that 1200 fish last only a few weeks is a sign that more than one or two people are poaching illegally.

I actually like the idea of creating a wild trout stream. I understand what you are saying. I think if the MDC would take on an experiment like this it would have to be a completely new stream (I'm sure they have purchased at least a couple of areas that would fit the bill perfectly) that has enough forage to grow the trout as they need to. I'm not sure how long it would take a hatchery trout of 3" to grow to 12', a pretty long time I would guess, but with periodic stockings over the course of at least a couple of years you might just end up with something like a Crane Creek. After all that is basically how Crane came to be. I'm sure they would have make it either a Red or Blue ribbon stream

As for poachers. I have seen the locals, a few years back, at Capp's Creek fishing in the morning then leave and then see them again in the afternoon. Both times catching and keeping fish. This was quite a while back and I admit I should have called someone but I failed. I will not fail again. Most poachers know that the odds of getting caught are slim and they have a 99% chance that they will not be caught.

How about they confiscate the weapons used, in this case the rods and reels, the vehicle used to commit the crime and fines and or jail time. Yeah, I know that will never happen, although that is exactly what happens to poachers of deer. Maybe our beloved fish are not as high on the MDC's totem pole as we would like.

I also have no real problem with the stocking procedures. This year and last are not the ordinary considering the problems the hatcheries had last year.

Just my opinion.

[tgard27]

I'm trying to find the report that I read on Iowas trout stocking program, when I find it I'll post a link. You may not believe it, but more than 20-30 percent of trout fry survive the stocking and following years. However, I don't see White Ribbon rivers as being put and take fishing, that is what we have Bennett, Montauk, Meramec and Roaring River for. White ribbon areas are streams that have trout populations subsidized by stocking, not trout that are stocked with the sole purpose ofbeing tonites dinner. The only way to crack down on poaching is to have a fulltime ranger employed to each of these streams, and at 40,000 a year I doubt that this would happen. I think that you would be suprised if MDC would try this for a year or so on a stream similar to Capps. And i don't think that Iowa is the only state that uses a stocking form of this manner. One more thing, no one gave Crane a flying chance and it was stocked as an accident, this stream turned out to be one of the pride and joys of MDC. Travis

[ozark trout fisher]

I'm trying to find the report that I read on Iowas trout stocking program, when I find it I'll post a link. You may not believe it, but more than 20-30 percent of trout fry survive the stocking and following years. However, I don't see White Ribbon rivers as being put and take fishing, that is what we have Bennett, Montauk, Meramec and Roaring River for. White ribbon areas are streams that have trout populations subsidized by stocking, not trout that are stocked with the sole purpose ofbeing tonites dinner. The only way to crack down on poaching is to have a fulltime ranger employed to each of these streams, and at 40,000 a year I doubt that this would happen. I think that you would be suprised if MDC would try this for a year or so on a stream similar to Capps. And i don't think that Iowa is the only state that uses a stocking form of this manner. One more thing, no one gave Crane a flying chance and it was stocked as an accident, this stream turned out to be one of the pride and joys of MDC. Travis

To be honest, White Ribbon Areas are basically classic put and take style fisheries. There are certainly some resident fish to be found in most if not all of these areas, but the definition of a put and take fishery is a stream or lake that is stocked, with the intentions of many or most of them going home with fisherman soon after the stocking. That is certainly the case with all of our White Ribbon areas.

And maybe you are right that more than 20% or 30% would make it through, but I doubt it would be as many as make it through in our Red Ribbon Areas as do right now. The fact is, that the only way we are going to make streams like Capps, Hickory, or Roubidoux less dependant on the stocking truck is by making a length limit, and reducing the number of fish can be kept in a day, and while it pains me to say this, possibly banning bait. I would like to see these happen on some of our White Ribbon streams with a lot of good habitat, such as Capps and Roubidoux Creek. But to stock fingerlings, but not change the regs would be pointless in my opinion. Those fish would go home in a cooler by the time they were five inches long! As far as the Red Ribbon Areas at the North Fork and the Meramec, and the Blue Ribbon Area at the Current, those areas are doing fine, so why change anything?

[FishHawk]

... but I do wish they would float through stock instead of stock the access points on the larger streams. Of course that's not possible on the little creeks like Hickory or Capps. ...

I agree, float stocking is the way to go. I do know that all of the stocked "Ribbon" areas of the Current, Eleven Point, North Fork, and Ltl. Piney are float stocked. There are probably others.

[ozark trout fisher]

So I have a question: does anyone object to the way that MDC does thier trout stockings for white and red ribbon stream throughout Missouri? I personally am not fond of the way that MDC stocks these white and red ribbon streams. My reasons are two fold: one, they put full grown adult trout into these streams which leaves these trout vulnerable to poaching from trout baiters ( I have no problem with people who catch and keep with bait, just don't keep over 4!) and reason number two is that people in these towns almost seem to know when these stockings will occur in advance(take Roubidoux for example). So I have a suggestion, and I am open for debate on this subject. Iowa stocks trout fry into their streams, giving each year a "hacthing" and creating a hybridized wild trout. The trout grow up in this stream and never see the stocking tubes that our trout in Missouri see. This would keep the paoching to a minimum as these "wild" trout are as spooky as real wild trout are. And this would also make it pointless of asking when the stockings are or seeing if you're buddy will give you stocking info in advanced. This would also have to help cut back on the expenses, so maybe MDC wouldn't had to cut back on stockings in the trout parks. Travis

I think that, overall, Missouri trout stocking is fine as is. There are a few exceptions. Roubidoux is obviously a mess, but just about any put and take stream in the middle of a town would be. Stocking fingerlings here would be okay, but you would have to put a length limit, if you didn't want all the trout in the stream to be put on ice before they were 7" long. I know its hard to believe, but there are plenty of people out there that would keep a 7 or 8 inch trout.

Red Ribbon stocking, I think is about perfect. Two of our three Red Ribbon streams are top quality trout streams (Meramec and NFOW). Roubidoux's Red ribbon area clearly isn't top quality. I attribute that more to warm water temperatures, because the MDC decided to put the Red Ribbon area on the lower reaches of the stream where the water gets a lot warmer in the summer. I think maybe they should make the first two miles below the spring red ribbon, and below there, put a mile or so of white ribbon.

But all in all, I think the way Missouri stocks its streams is fine.