Trout Stocking Issues

[Midwest troutbum]

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but thought I would write this rant to add my two cents worth:

For the majority, the MDC does a decent job at managing our resources and tax/donation dollars.

However, A minor adjustments here and there to the existing program would benefit the majority of dedicated trout fishing folk out there.

I propose the MDC focus less efforts on stocking the winter lakes and more on the red white and blue trout management stream areas. I will give a few opinions and observations from my experiences to back up this statement.

Trout are statistically more likely to survive in a cleaner, purer water source than a city lake that is typically stagnate, with low oxygen levels. Trout will not live beyond winter in the majority of MO ponds. (Mortality /harvest rate is near 100% in city ponds). Trout are more likely to survive and potentially reproduce in cold waters that have clean natural springs supplying and charging the stream. Trout at least have a chance to establish a year round presence in spring fed rivers and streams. Management dollars are more wisely allocated to heavy stocking our select streams. Additional trout fishing opportunities could be created throughout the state by stocking and closer management on more of the natural cold water springs and below springs. (The MDC has a list of little known cold water springs in MO, many of which are not managed for trout populations.)

A few winters ago, I witnessed a local kirkwood resident 'illegally' net fish right out of Kirkwood park's lake in Kirkwood MO just hours after it was stocked for the winter three years ago. I'm suspect this happens more than many of us know. Illegal fishing is done mostly by uneducated persons, that have little to no regard for nature, or the environment, or the laws of the community and or society. (side note: If I ever come across this again, I will take photos and report it to a game warden and local police. I have the number now written in my wallet and have a cellphone handy.) Many of the fish go belly up once the ice freezes, temps rise, and or the oxygen levels, and or chemical runoff from the streets and lawns kill. Why even waste money and or resources stocking in these conditions? Solution: Possibly less stocking $ in the winter ponds and more illegal poaching patrol watches by local police in these areas during very early mornings and late evenings?

I realize not all are able to obtain access to the rivers or travel long distances for their fishing experience. I would like to see more spring fed streams considered for trout management in MO that would allow for more trout fishing opportunities.

Food for thought:

Foreign languages, music, art etc are a K-12 education requirement why shouldn't ecology?

[Outside Bend]

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but thought I would write this rant to add my two cents worth:

For the majority, the MDC does a decent job at managing our resources and tax/donation dollars.

However, A minor adjustments here and there to the existing program would benefit the majority of dedicated trout fishing folk out there.

I propose the MDC focus less efforts on stocking the winter lakes and more on the red white and blue trout management stream areas. I will give a few opinions and observations from my experiences to back up this statement.

Trout are statistically more likely to survive in a cleaner, purer water source than a city lake that is typically stagnate, with low oxygen levels. Trout will not live beyond winter in the majority of MO ponds. (Mortality /harvest rate is near 100% in city ponds). Trout are more likely to survive and potentially reproduce in cold waters that have clean natural springs supplying and charging the stream. Trout at least have a chance to establish a year round presence in spring fed rivers and streams. Management dollars are more wisely allocated to heavy stocking our select streams. Additional trout fishing opportunities could be created throughout the state by stocking and closer management on more of the natural cold water springs and below springs. (The MDC has a list of little known cold water springs in MO, many of which are not managed for trout populations.)

A few winters ago, I witnessed a local kirkwood resident 'illegally' net fish right out of Kirkwood park's lake in Kirkwood MO just hours after it was stocked for the winter three years ago. I'm suspect this happens more than many of us know. Illegal fishing is done mostly by uneducated persons, that have little to no regard for nature, or the environment, or the laws of the community and or society. (side note: If I ever come across this again, I will take photos and report it to a game warden and local police. I have the number now written in my wallet and have a cellphone handy.) Many of the fish go belly up once the ice freezes, temps rise, and or the oxygen levels, and or chemical runoff from the streets and lawns kill. Why even waste money and or resources stocking in these conditions? Solution: Possibly less stocking $ in the winter ponds and more illegal poaching patrol watches by local police in these areas during very early mornings and late evenings?

I realize not all are able to obtain access to the rivers or travel long distances for their fishing experience. I would like to see more spring fed streams considered for trout management in MO that would allow for more trout fishing opportunities.

Food for thought:

Foreign languages, music, art etc are a K-12 education requirement why shouldn't ecology?

You could double or triple the number or stocked trout in our Ozark streams- that doesn't mean they'll survive. It's carrying capacity- you can stock 1000 fish into a system, but if the it can only support 300, you're not doing anyone any favors by stocking more. At best it's a draw- instead of going home in angler's creel the surplus fish become mink and turtle food. At worst, the stream fishery may be worse off due to increased stress, crowding, depleted prey base, etc.

I agree that the state's coldwater trout fisheries should be priority 1 for MDC. But if they're producing more fish than they have coldwater streams to stock them, I have no problem with the fish being put in urban lakes to provide a winter fishery.

[ozark trout fisher]

You're right that trout have a much (read infinitely) better chance at surviving in spring-fed rivers than stagnant ponds. They have essentially no chance of survival in the urban ponds, with the possible freak exception in some of the deeper Busch Wildlife lakes.

But that doesn't mean those stockings are useless. It allows many people to be introduced to trout fishing who might not otherwise ever get the chance. Not enough people are out fishing these days, and I don't think it is ideal to cut any program that has the potential to get more people to care about conserving our lakes and streams. And no, I don't have a dog in this fight either. I very rarely fish any of the public trout ponds in the winter. But I don't begrudge a program that allows people to enjoy what we've all found in trout fishing. Anyway, our spring-fed rivers are already stocked with more than enough trout...We don't need more.

Yes, there are some who badly abuse the winter trout fisheries. But should that prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy it?

[Al Agnew]

There aren't many spring-fed waters in MO that aren't either already stocked with trout, too small or short to furnish a viable public fishery, or in private hands. The four trout parks are about the only spring branches that are long enough and have enough flow to provide extensive public fishing. All the sections of larger streams that are cold enough are stocked already, with the possible exception of the Current below Akers. The other large springs have branches that are too short to furnish much fishing. Most medium to small springs are too small in themselves, or feed into small creeks that are in private ownership. Other than the aforementioned Current River section, I think the trout program is covering about as much water as there is available.

[Chief Grey Bear]

However, A minor adjustments here and there to the existing program would benefit the majority of dedicated trout fishing folk out there.

And that number will be miniscule when compared to the total number of fishmen in the state. And you are proposing spending even more tax money, relatively speaking, at a program that the only real benefit is to pump the numbers of fish caught for the few dedicated trout fishing folk.

So what we need are the numbers on whether the number of trout permits purchased have increased since the winter stocking program was initiated. I am sure that the local bait shops have enjoyed the increased patronage at any rate.

Just another way to look at it.

[Nortrad]

Dunno...I always seem to be able to find holdovers in the White Ribbon areas, and I've always found plenty of fish in most of the Red Ribbon stretches. I cant see a reason to change the stocking regimine based upon what some poacher of a bunch of them might do. Trout dont reproduce in significant enough numbers to sustain the fishing pressure they recieve in Missouri, so I'd rather crack down on the poachers, and allow folks to fish for stocked fish in catchable sizes. Cheers.

I agree with more and better enforcement. I'd pay more for my license and trout stamp for this. I've seen too many campfire sites along the Blue Ribbon stretch of the Current with discarded worm boxes and power bait jars.

[Gavin]

As Al said, there arent allot of places that can support trout, that dont have them already. Private stockings occur in many places, and there are a few pockets of wild fish on private land in this state. Its a rare treat to gain access to some of those places and thats the way it should be. Many of the other springs are unfit to hold trout. Many are intermittent, or too nitrogen rich to support a food chain (no forage, no fish). I do have a wish list though.....

1) Statewide limit of 1 brown trout

2) More enforcement

3) Trout stocking between Akers & Pulltite, and make it a white ribbon stream.

4) Move the Blue Ribbon on the Current down to Akers, if Aker's to Pulltite gets stocked.

5) Brown Trout on the Eleven Point

6) Access to the upper end of Spring Creek (Near Ft. Wood)

1& 2 seem attainable. I wouldnt hold your breath for any of the others. Cheers.

[Nortrad]

I thoroughly support brown trout on the 11 Pt., that would be something. Anyone know why no cutthroat are stocked? Any input appreciated.

[ozark trout fisher]

As Al said, there arent allot of places that can support trout, that dont have them already. Private stockings occur in many places, and there are a few pockets of wild fish on private land in this state. Its a rare treat to gain access to some of those places and thats the way it should be. Many of the other springs are unfit to hold trout. Many are intermittent, or too nitrogen rich to support a food chain (no forage, no fish). I do have a wish list though.....

1) Statewide limit of 1 brown trout

2) More enforcement

3) Trout stocking between Akers & Pulltite, and make it a white ribbon stream.

4) Move the Blue Ribbon on the Current down to Akers, if Aker's to Pulltite gets stocked.

5) Brown Trout on the Eleven Point

6) Access to the upper end of Spring Creek (Near Ft. Wood)

1& 2 seem attainable. I wouldnt hold your breath for any of the others. Cheers.

I would definitely support 1 and 2.

The others I am relatively indifferent about. I think that both the Current and Eleven Point already have plenty of opportunities for trout fisherman. On the Current, we have eight miles of great water for fly fishing/catch and release anglers and another 9 for primarily spin and bait fisherman. There's enough for everyone there. It would be wonderful to stock Akers to Pulltite, but unless we're able to produce more hatchery trout somewhere or cut stocking somewhere else, it just isn't going to happen now. Same with browns on the 11 Pt. Sure, it would be nice, but there's already a great rainbow fishery that I think most are very happy with (shocking data in the Blue Ribbon section has shown in the neighborhood of 1000 trout per mile for the last couple of years now, that's an impressive number anywhere) so why mess with a good thing? And I don't think that the MDC would be able to raise enough extra fish anyway to maintain a viable brown trout fishery on the 11 Pt. It's a big river and it would presumably take at the bare minimum a couple thousand browns (probably closer to 5000) a year being stocked for it to be worthwhile.

[stlfisher]

I would think you could improve the fishing and save money by decreasing the harvest a bit. Use the extra funds for further habitat improvements or purchasing new lands. You get more fish, for less money and maybe new fishable water. Semms like everyone wins.

The brown trout regulations need to be changed they are just silly the way they are now. Either that or flip the bait water and fly fishing water in the trout parks with a blue ribbon stretch below. This way the brown's at least have a chance to survive when they migrate between the two.

One other point. Almost all the hatchery's have been or are being renovated the last few years. Combined with record floods and the hacteries operating at less than full capacity due to the renovations, trout stocking has suffered a bit. I am pretty sure that will change in the upcoming years. I will be very interested to see the results at Bennet a year from now. The new hatchery opened on the 22nd with an additional 60,000 fish a year. It is not just Benett that will benefit,the improvements should increase production across the board (parks borrow fish from each to meet demend etc - should decrease).

Still there seems to be plenty of fish around...just seems silly to have so many get picked off so quick.