Mountain Lions in Missouri

[Snow Fly]

Kansas Fly Fisher: I saw the article about the state of Mo. removing Mountain Loins from the endangered species list, the article also pointed out that this action was to simply allows a Mountain Lion to be killed and thus not be charged with the death of a species listed on the endangered list, even while they refuse to admit that these animals do inhibit our woods.They have also in this move eliminated any liability by allowing these creatures to be killed.

[DaveB]

http://www.mdc.mo.gov/documents/nathis/mam...souri_mlion.pdf

[shadman]

i have heard rumors thatMDC actually released cougars across the state to combat the deer population problem.Now they deny cause no one wants predators runnin around thier woods. Who will have to fix the problem? MDC. I dont think they want to admit they messed up or have to pay the cost of removing the cats they placed.

[KRflyfisher]

Mt. Lions are in MO and KS. I have a cousin who watched a lion attack one of his calves from the cab of his tractor, he lives near Atchison, KS. That year he reported losing 6 calves to predators, he has never lost that many to predators before or since. I have seen them as a kid in NW MO and my father who coon hunts, says he has seen the tracks, and heard the screams in several areas around the Lake of the Ozarks. Mt. Lions in our state parks are a reality. In the summer of 2002 some friends, my wife and I arrived very late to a public campsite near Truman lake and set up camp in the dark. At about midnight a ranger came up to our campfire and asked us why we thought we were alone in such a prime area. Turns out that the site we picked was frequented by a particualar cat. The pine trees directly behind our tent showed evidence of that as they were scratched to shreds like every other scratching post I have ever seen a cat scratch on and I have the pictures to prove it. The game officer pointed those out to us as he urged us to move our camp. The proof is there, they have everything they need to become a thriving predator again, I feel that the state should study and manage them like any other game animal rather than denying, or explaining away they problem as being enormous bobcats or whatever other explantation people want to concoct. Obviously there is a reason why they are coming back, and a purpose for it as well. Study and mangagment could only serve to strengthen our knowledge and perhaps even provide a meager financial boost as well.

KR

[Wayne SW/MO]

Couple of points:

Any rumor that the MDC turned out big cats for Deer control just doesn't fit the test of reality. Historically Coyotes have been the biggest deer predator. They start at fawning and take more than their share. They're also efficient at bringing down weather battered animals and yearling's all year. It would take an awful lot of cats to effect a herd the size of Missouri's.

I feel that the state should study and manage them like any other game animal

That may be a sensitive subject. Hounds are the only really effective method of hunting and controlling the big cats by hunting. The problem is that there is an organization that not only opposes the use of hounds, is willing to use questionable methods concerning education of the public, and is quick to use petitions for constitutional bans. This is what has happened in many western states.

So maybe they feel they shouldn't push the subject if there is no immediate threat.

[Al Agnew]

I agree with Wayne...no way MDC released any of them in secret.

I suspect there are a few in Missouri. But what kinda surprises me is the sightings in places other than the Ozarks, places where there is a lot more open ground and fewer places for them to hide. They ARE good at staying out of sight, but given all the yahoos in the woods during deer season, it's hard to fathom how they could all stay out of sight and safe at that time.

As shy as they usually are, there are exceptions. I think they are naturally curious, and a lot of times somebody will see one "sneaking up behind them". I suspect most of the time these are just following out of curiosity. But in California, where most of the recent attacks of people have occured, it's due to people moving in to good mountain lion habitat, coupled with the ban on hunting that apparently is making them more likely to run afoul of people. I wouldn't shoot one unless it was definitely acting strangely and threateningly, but it's not like there is NO way they'd attack a person. The jogger that got killed a few years ago in CA was attacked from behind as she was running. Cats are cats, and all you have to do to see what might happen to something running away from a cat of any kind is to play with your house cat.

Now what REALLY makes me skeptical is the whole "black panther" thing. Since there is no scientific record of black panthers in America, other than the slight possibility that a black jaguar or two might once have lived in the Southwest, or that the one in a million or so mountain lions might be melanistic, where the heck is the black panther stuff coming from? Yet, I've heard stories of black panthers in Missouri all my life. I really wonder what the true story is there.

[retroaction man]

I grew up around monett and spring river area. I can beleive the bob cats and mt loins. Ive seen a bobcat myself. But i have always thought that the black panther rumor was an uran legand.

[Quillback]

I live in Washington state and we have many Cougars as they are called out here. We used to have a hound season for cougars, but the animal lovers pushed through a ballot measure that outlawed hunting cougars with hounds. Anyone can get a cougar permit to hunt cougars but it is very tough without hounds, most cougars that are shot are harvested by deer or elk hunters that come across them during deer or elk season. Cougars are very wary and it is unusual to see them. I spend a lot of time outdoors hunting, fishing, and hiking and I have seen one cougar in all that time and that was one by the road when I was in my truck.

I would be concerned if I saw a cougar and it was unafraid, they always say that if a cougar appears to be stalking you you should raise your arms above your head to appear bigger, make noise and stand your ground. Of course if your armed, you have other options.

In spite of the large number of cougars we have out here, attacks on humans are rare, at least here in Washington, in CA they have had more attacks and a couple of people have been killed. But here in WA there haven't been any fatal cougar attacks in many years if ever. Cougars, when they go after humans tend to go after women and children as they are smaller.

We do get problem cougars and bears that wander into the suburbs, usually old or young animals that start killing the local pets, the Game Department will get called and they'll come in and remove the animal.

[KRflyfisher]

I believe the "black panters" people report are one of two things: 1. An escaped, or liberated pet, 2. or simply a mental projection that comes out of someone's fear. It is unfortunate but exotic pets like big cats are fairly easily aquired, and just as easily dumped. Here is a link to a story about the issue here in the US.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...6_EXPLcats.html

I have seen cougars on 2 occasions while hunting for coons with hounds. It is both an awesome and frightful experience, especially for a child. The way they move with such ease and grace was amazing. I understand the fear that exists if these cats are studied and managed. Obviously management is not an issue if study hasn't occured first. The benefits of understanding these animals and the roles they now play could be great. Those that live in the KC area know that an increasing number of sightings (and one kill that I am aware of) have happened in suburban settings. I know that a few years ago a few elementary schools in Olathe were shut down because of a sighting in the area. Study would start to provide answers for why these reclusive cats are being seen more often, though still very infrequently as of late. The cats that have been killed and have been confirmed to be cougars have been young animals. If these are pets that owners can no longer manage which may well be the case, what can or needs to be done to further regulate this kind of thing to prevent it from happening? Or maybe this issue really isn't that big yet. If these are not pet cats, then why are the cats back? Good point about the coyotes and thier impact on the deer herd, but once upon a time they did have a role to fill my question is are they filling it now? Who knows?