Trout Management Changes?

[ozark trout fisher]

So, I thought this might make a good topic. I actually started thinking about this after an interesting thread on the Bennett Spring forum.... So I was just wondering if folks could come up with some ideas to make trout fishing better in Missouri. I know that trout fishing is really pretty darn good in Missouri, but there is always room for improvement. I hope this can be a constructive conversation, without personal attacks, insults, etc.

First off, I think that our smaller Blue Ribbon Areas (Crane Creek, Mill Creek, Little Piney Creek etc), should be made into "no kill" catch and release areas. I think that this would reduce a certain amount of "cheating" the length limit, as I believe this hurts our smaller streams quite a bit. Secondly, I agree that some form of catch and release area should be added at Bennett, as well as maybe a very short one in the faster water near the head of Maramec Spring park, where few bait/catch and keep fisherman fish anyway. I would also be very much in favor of dropping the daily limit to three trout in parks and white ribbon areas. I believe this would cause much less of a stress on our hatcheries, and ultimately better fishing.

Also, while this would take some money and work, I think habitat improvement should not be overlooked as a method to improve our trout streams, both inside and outside of parks. I am thinking of things such as adding in-stream boulders and "lunker structures". These are just ideas, and I am sure that there are many more with merit, and I am curious to hear them.

[laker67]

So, I thought this might make a good topic. I actually started thinking about this after an interesting thread on the Bennett Spring forum.... So I was just wondering if folks could come up with some ideas to make trout fishing better in Missouri. I know that trout fishing is really pretty darn good in Missouri, but there is always room for improvement. I hope this can be a constructive conversation, without personal attacks, insults, etc.

First off, I think that our smaller Blue Ribbon Areas (Crane Creek, Mill Creek, Little Piney Creek etc), should be made into "no kill" catch and release areas. I think that this would reduce a certain amount of "cheating" the length limit, as I believe this hurts our smaller streams quite a bit. Secondly, I agree that some form of catch and release area should be added at Bennett, as well as maybe a very short one in the faster water near the head of Maramec Spring park, where few bait/catch and keep fisherman fish anyway. I would also be very much in favor of dropping the daily limit to three trout in parks and white ribbon areas. I believe this would cause much less of a stress on our hatcheries, and ultimately better fishing.

Also, while this would take some money and work, I think habitat improvement should not be overlooked as a method to improve our trout streams, both inside and outside of parks. I am thinking of things such as adding in-stream boulders and "lunker structures". These are just ideas, and I am sure that there are many more with merit, and I am curious to hear them.

This is more of an observation than a suggestion. Over the years, prior to trout park dredging, mother nature and her flood waters created better structure than anything that I have ever seen with the dredging operations. Also, prior to dredging, I don't recall moss being a problem like it is now. And I don't recall "moss cutting" ever being done prior to dredging of the channels. Wing dikes that run with the flow of water at a slight angle can be a good thing. Those old wing dikes from bennett have been replaced with the ones you see now. Add some dredging around those new wing dikes, and you have created a moss pit instead of a natural gravel run. Up until the mid 80's, bssp was as good of a natural stream that you would find anywhere. I would compare it to what the Current River looks like now. They have ruined bennett with their dredging. I would be totally against any structure or stream improvements done by Dnr or Mdc. This of course is only my personal opinion based on my observations of the past.

[ozark trout fisher]

This is more of an observation than a suggestion. Over the years, prior to trout park dredging, mother nature and her flood waters created better structure than anything that I have ever seen with the dredging operations. Also, prior to dredging, I don't recall moss being a problem like it is now. And I don't recall "moss cutting" ever being done prior to dredging of the channels. Wing dikes that run with the flow of water at a slight angle can be a good thing. Those old wing dikes from bennett have been replaced with the ones you see now. Add some dredging around those new wing dikes, and you have created a moss pit instead of a natural gravel run. Up until the mid 80's, bssp was as good of a natural stream that you would find anywhere. I would compare it to what the Current River looks like now. They have ruined bennett with their dredging. I would be totally against any structure or stream improvements done by Dnr or Mdc. This of course is only my personal opinion based on my observations of the past.

I agree that dredging is bad for our streams, and is a practice that should be discontinued... Still, I do think that stream improvements such as boulders, and lunker structures would help, without damaging the "natural" look of the stream much if at all. Montauk state park has many such stream improvements, and I think most believe it is the most natural looking of our parks.

I really think such stream improvements would really help our wild trout creeks more than the parks. I know of streams out west, not unlike our smaller trout streams, that had their trout populations skyrocket after a little help from man, paticularly placing large boulders in some of the deeper riffles, to create a "pocket water" effect, and lunker structures in the better pools. This adds quite a few places for trout to hide, and feed, and I think it could definitely help our wild trout streams. Just my opinion

[Al Agnew]

The biggest difference between the trout parks, which are spring branches, and the rivers, is that the volume of water flowing is more often strong enough to work WITH natural or manmade structure to form deeper pools and pockets. You need high water to do so. Bennett has a dry creek above the branch that occasionally floods in extreme rain events which might help. Montauk has Pigeon Creek above it and gets flooded fairly regularly. Maramec doesn't have anything. I doubt that adding structure anywhere in Maramec will do much of anything...it tends to get backed up from the river in floods and have MORE sediment deposited instead of being scoured out. Adding structure in Montauk would probably work in many places. It MIGHT work in Bennett.

Fact is that most "natural" spring branches tend to be shallow, gravelly runs with few pools that could hold fish. You gotta have the power of high volumes of fast-flowing water to scour out deep places around any kind of obstructions. The spring branches just don't flow enough water normally to move anything other than fairly fine gravel.

[ozark trout fisher]

The biggest difference between the trout parks, which are spring branches, and the rivers, is that the volume of water flowing is more often strong enough to work WITH natural or manmade structure to form deeper pools and pockets. You need high water to do so. Bennett has a dry creek above the branch that occasionally floods in extreme rain events which might help. Montauk has Pigeon Creek above it and gets flooded fairly regularly. Maramec doesn't have anything. I doubt that adding structure anywhere in Maramec will do much of anything...it tends to get backed up from the river in floods and have MORE sediment deposited instead of being scoured out. Adding structure in Montauk would probably work in many places. It MIGHT work in Bennett.

Fact is that most "natural" spring branches tend to be shallow, gravelly runs with few pools that could hold fish. You gotta have the power of high volumes of fast-flowing water to scour out deep places around any kind of obstructions. The spring branches just don't flow enough water normally to move anything other than fairly fine gravel.

Interesting... I hadn't thought of that. I do know that the MDC has had success with such things at Montauk, and that would make since with your explanation. It seems like it might have potential to work in places like Little Piney, because it has a considerable drainage upstream of where the trout water really begins (its usually pretty dry above the blue ribbon area, but it can flood pretty awesomely after a good rain)... I've always thought that might be a creek where the population of trout could be increased with a little bit of pocket water added in the riffles, this really makes me think so.....

[Gavin]

I cant really see a need for C&R on the wild trout creeks, though I wouldnt oppose it. Most fish dont make it to 15" on those creeks due to habitat issues, and I rarely see evidence of poaching, though I'm sure some occurs.

Habitat improvements at the parks.....Bennett, Meramec, and Roaring River dont really look like trout streams..They seem to be configured like hatchery raceways for the most part...A more natural setting would be preferable, but I'm not sure if they could handle the traffic they receive if they were allowed to revert to a more natural state.

Montauk still has a stream like character, but it in need of some bank restoration in areas, and there seems to be a siltation problem on the upper Current. I'm not sure what the cause is. Could be erosion problems up Pidgeon Creek, or water table issues, a combo of both, or something else...I'm not sure why, but the upper Current seems to be a lot shallower than I remember it 20-30 years ago.

Habitat improvements elswhere...It would be nice if the float operators, NPS, and Park Service would stop cutting woody debris that falls in the water...It would make a lot of places harder to canoe, but I see no problem with it. Adding structure is a problem in most Ozark streams because of the way they rise and fall..Man made improvements seem to wash out pretty quickly during high water events...Least they did on Mill Creek...MDC put a bunch of lunker structures in there a couple years ago and they washed out...They added more this year, and I dont have high hopes. I think it would be best to leave the river alone for the most part, except for stabilizing banks, and repairing the riparian corridor...

Little Piney...could be a great stream. It has more flow and potential than any other wild trout creek. Unfortunately, its got some severe habitat issues...Several Gravel Mines (old gravel pits above 63 bridge heat up the water, one gravel pit in operation below Vida, another gravel operation at the G. Nade confluence, and there is lots of damage from gravel mining activities on private land along the creek. Cattle in sections of the creek too. Its often a half-mile or more between pockets of good habitat. Cheers.

[FishHawk]

.............Least they did on Mill Creek...MDC put a bunch of lunker structures in there a couple years ago and they washed out...

Gavin, better check your source of information. Unless something happened in the past two weeks, the lunker structures put in by MDC did NOT wash out. They looked like they were functioning fine to me. Did you see something I did not?

[Gavin]

Fished it a couple times in 2008...and the bank stuctures looked pretty nice...nice deep holes in front of many of them...Fished it in March of this year.. and it looked like they had a high water event that collapsed a few of them, and silted alot of the deep holes.. It also looked like there was a lot of additional work in process at that time...some new excavation, bank structures, heavy equipment tracks in the stream and along the banks..... All in all the CA water looked pretty ugly in May and I wasnt impressed. I caught plenty of fish, but most were above or below the CA.

Maybe things look different know. I dont know....but I'll keep my mind open and make another trip. Cheers.

[superfly]

I would like to see "no kill" catch and release in all Blue Ribbon Areas. Along with single hook use ownly (no treb hooks)! Also ban all motorize boats in Blue Ribbon Areas. I don't think motorize boats do any good to the stream beds.

[ozark trout fisher]

I would like to see "no kill" catch and release in all Blue Ribbon Areas. Along with single hook use ownly (no treb hooks)! Also ban all motorize boats in Blue Ribbon Areas. I don't think motorize boats do any good to the stream beds.

Treble hooks rarely cause any sort of unhooking problems for me.

Sorry to bring up a bit of an old conversation. Was out of town for a week and didn't have a chance to check the forum.