Trout Management Changes?

[superfly]

ozark trout fisher you asked for trout management changes? any ideas. I believe those 3 ideas would produce more and larger trout in our blue ribbon waters. Missouri needs to follow some of the western states laws for trout management.

[ozark trout fisher]

ozark trout fisher you asked for trout management changes? any ideas. I believe those 3 ideas would produce more and larger trout in our blue ribbon waters. Missouri needs to follow some of the western states laws for trout management.

I have absolutely zero problem with you throwing out any ideas you have. All I'm saying is based on my experiences, I haven't had much trouble unhooking trout with regular, artificial lures. So basically, I just happen to disagree with you.

Is that allowed?

I wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of wild trout waters being single hooked artificials only. But, I do have concerns, that this could quickly turn into "fly fishing only". There are quite a few western states, (Idaho, Oregon, and Yellowstone Park to give a few examples), where most of the best trout streams are restricted to flies only. I don't want to see that happen in Missouri.

[Sherwood Flycaster]

....where most of the best trout streams are restricted to flies only. I don't want to see that happen in Missouri.

If most of the BEST trout streams out yonder are flies only, don't you think that possibly says something about that regulation and its effectiveness? And quite simply, your expertise in the use of trebles may not be the best anecdotal evidence to consider for that potential issue and it's negative impact, especially in the use of bait/non fly practices. Myself, I'm starting to come around to the realization that the trout parks are evolving into more of a Suson Park or any other meat provider public facilities in urban areas offer(MSSP being the obvious best example). And that's absolutely fine for those that want meat! I would, however, like to see the waterways otherwise available for trout in Missouri directed more to that Western ideology.

[Midge]

Single hook does not mean flies only. I do understand that it decreases the options, but it doesn't eliminate other artificial baites. It's good that you don't have trouble releasing fish with treble hooks, but I always have. That's why I don't use them if I'm going to release fish.

[Gavin]

Whats the basis for your desire to ban treble hooks and for catch & release in all of our blue ribbon areas? Are you noticing an abundance of beat up hook scarred fish, or has there been a sudden decrease in the fish population caused by angling pressure?

I can see a need for barbless and no treble regulations on some fisheries, but not on others. The C&R areas on the White...it makes sense...Upper Taney... it makes sense. The other blue ribbon streams in Missouri just dont get that kind of angling pressure, so I see no need to go barbless or ban trebles at this time. Cheers.

[Midge]

Whats the basis for your desire to ban treble hooks and for catch & release in all of our blue ribbon areas? Are you noticing an abundance of beat up hook scarred fish, or has there been a sudden decrease in the fish population caused by angling pressure?

I can see a need for barbless and no treble regulations on some fisheries, but not on others. The C&R areas on the White...it makes sense...Upper Taney... it makes sense. The other blue ribbon streams in Missouri just dont get that kind of angling pressure, so I see no need to go barbless or ban trebles at this time. Cheers.

I can't speak for all of the blue ribbon streams in MO. My thoughts are mainly aimed at the eleven point blue ribbon section and the experiences I have had there. The 11 point doesn't appear to recieve much fishing pressure, but the population seems to decrease rapidly throughout the fishing season. The elevn point is stocked sometimes, which makes it fish great for a while. Only one fish over eighteen inches is allowed to be taken in the 11 point blue ribbon section, so where are the fish going.

On the eleven point I think that banning treble hooks would keep a lot of the jet boats out of the blue ribbon section. I believe that this would decrease poaching in this area(please don't take offense, I do not believe all of the guys taking jet boats up there are poaching).

As far as banning treble hooks on Taney and areas like Taney, I think thats a toss up. these areas are stocked heavily, and can better handle the fishing pressure.

Just one guys opinion, there may be better ways of solving this problem.

[ozark trout fisher]

If most of the BEST trout streams out yonder are flies only, don't you think that possibly says something about that regulation and its effectiveness? And quite simply, your expertise in the use of trebles may not be the best anecdotal evidence to consider for that potential issue and it's negative impact, especially in the use of bait/non fly practices. Myself, I'm starting to come around to the realization that the trout parks are evolving into more of a Suson Park or any other meat provider public facilities in urban areas offer(MSSP being the obvious best example). And that's absolutely fine for those that want meat! I would, however, like to see the waterways otherwise available for trout in Missouri directed more to that Western ideology.

First of all, just to clear it up, are you suggesting that our Blue Ribbon areas bar spin fisherman of any kind, including those who use single hooks and no bait? If that is what you are saying, there is no reason in the world why a trout would be deeply hooked by a single hooked rooster tail, but not a hare's ear nymph. The argument simply makes no sense, unless you'd just prefer not to see spin fisherman when you go fishing. The fisheries where fly fishing only may have more fish, but they also ban a large part of the fisherman that would like to enjoy the river. That's not an acceptable trade-off in my opinion. It would be great for you based on your user name, but the fact that there are a few more fish wouldn't do a lot to help spin fisherman that aren't allowed to fish anyway.

About the issue of where the trout go in the Blue Ribbon area of the Eleven Point, natural mortality and poaching probably has much more to do with it than treble hooked spinners. Have you ever seen the number of Cranes that live along that river? Do you think they aren't responsible for eating a good number of trout? Just throwing this out there.

Also, I am aware that single hook only is a lot different from fly only. But it seems like making the regulation would open the door for making that "small step" to the stream being fly only. Maybe that wouldn't happen, but then again it may.

But beyond this, I think habitat improvement would go a lot further for helping our fisheries than reducing the number of points allowed on a hook.

[Midwest troutbum]

Banning treble hooks on Blue Ribbon areas is a no brainer. Treble hooks have been proven to be more stressful and have a high mortality rate on fish especially in catch and release situations. People that argue otherwise are always going to use treble hooks, or were raised using them to produce a bounty of harvest for the dinner table. Use of a single hook increases the odds of the fish escaping, therefore assists the fish population to have a higher survival rate. Working with landowners whose property feeds into feeder streams would keep oxygen levels up, and sediment levels down in streams and rivers. Polluted water is also a big player in fish habitat and the ecosystem. Boulders in smaller streams would be effective short term solutions, however expensive and maintaining may be another issue. Education and an open mind is critical to the future of our stream and riverways. Look to the western states and their regulations on sport fishing for proven examples and ideas that work, and fish populations that thrive on minimal state and federal budgets.

[troutfiend1985]

Where does the idea of enforcement come into play? I would have to think that this is a high priority on my list. My friend went down to Crane a couple of weeks ago, and told me that a guy at the city park told him that the best bait was live crawdads in this stream. Top it off, the guy said he knew it was against the regulations, did it anyways, and looked to be a person employed by the City of Crane to mow down the grass at the park. My friend called the poachers hotline, but I haven't heard any news back him.

I've come to a realization that the only way things will get better is to fund an appropriate amount of enforcement agents to enforce our laws. It's common sense to me(although I am human, and thus prone to mistakes). But really, who is going to enforce these rules, these changes? Maybe one fisherman out of ten if we are lucky and have our cell phone on us. Call me a cynic, but the MDC has to want to change its ways before anything is going to get better in the trout fishing arena. Structure is great, but that is just calling for poachers. Gavin, I've seen limb lines on blue ribbon streams before, and yes there are some big trout in our wild waters. But still, the problem remains with the approach that MDC takes to enforcing its own rules and regulations. I still have not been checked for a license at a trout stream, only at James A. Reed a couple of years ago on a regulatory stop. Outside of this, I really haven't seen the necessary amount of enforcement for new rules, much less the rules currently applied.

Really, the White Ribbon Streams as they are right now are a complete waste of resources. Either do something to change this, or abandon them as I have yet to see the purpose of what MDC and their wild west rules are trying to accomplish. And this is a pity, because these could be nice fisheries if someone in the MDC had the guts to make a change about how these areas are handled. I’ve got it on good word, plus from my own experiences, that there is some wild production in these streams. Yet, when I email MDC about this, all I get is a response telling me that they will take it under consideration. In other words, we’ll throw your email in the garbage because the hatcheries make us too much money to change the ways we are handling things currently.

The Blue Ribbon streams, from what I have seen, are doing ok. You could make some changes to them, but I still think that enforcement is the only way these streams will get better. Yes, I'm on a rant, but really, MDC has some very weird ways in handling issues.

[moguy1973]

Why does this guy keep digging up old threads?