Stock Triploid Trout In Taney?

[Randall]

Yeah, I really don't see how that's cheating. If they were growing them themselves and then "catching" them, I'd say that would be cheating but the fact that they are able to dominate the books by playing by a set of rules outside of their control in a way that any other person could really does not seem like cheating to me. According to the rules, a rainbow trout is a rainbow trout. If you want to set a record, what sense would it make to target average fish? You don't build a football team by recruiting flute players, you find the biggest, meanest boys around.

As far as having triploids in Taney, I don't know enough about the potential impact or the ecosystem of taneycomo to make an informed comment. I know I sure would love to catch a 40 pound rainbow though.

[bigredbirdfan]

You can argue that these fish should have their own classification but I wouldn't call it "cheating". They're not classified separate and these guys are catching them... plain and simple. If I had that fishery to fish I'd be all over those things and I'd bet you would too.

I bet you two enjoyed steriod baseball (some of it wasn't illegal at the time right???) and cheating New England Patriots Football.

Finding an edge to get yourself past others who don't target freak fish is crap and I stand by it. GREAT BIG * for these two twinkie cheaters

[bigredbirdfan]

Yeah, I really don't see how that's cheating. If they were growing them themselves and then "catching" them, I'd say that would be cheating but the fact that they are able to dominate the books by playing by a set of rules outside of their control in a way that any other person could really does not seem like cheating to me. According to the rules, a rainbow trout is a rainbow trout. If you want to set a record, what sense would it make to target average fish? You don't build a football team by recruiting flute players, you find the biggest, meanest boys around.

As far as having triploids in Taney, I don't know enough about the potential impact or the ecosystem of taneycomo to make an informed comment. I know I sure would love to catch a 40 pound rainbow though.

I bet you two enjoyed steriod baseball (some of it wasn't illegal at the time right???) and cheating New England Patriots Football.

Finding an edge to get yourself past others who don't target freak fish is crap and I stand by it. GREAT BIG *for these two twinkie cheaters

[Randall]

Actually, I have always considered steroids cheating because they have been a controlled substance, the possession of which is a felony, since before I was born.

I would also distinguish between using steroids and targeting genetically larger fish. By using steroids, an athlete is affirmatively choosing to sacrifice his integrity and the image of the sport that he represents by engaging in criminal behavior. That athlete is also unfairly disadvantaging his opponents by playing outside the rules. The record brothers, conversely, are using legal methods to target a fish legally classified as a rainbow trout that is legally stocked by a regulating authority. They are not breaking any laws or engaging in questionable ethical behavior. They are playing by the rules 100%. As far as the comment about finding an edge over others who don't target freakishly large fish, I would have to respond by comparing the targeting of triploid rainbows to the targeting of trophy brown trout in tailwaters such as Lake Taneycomo where they are able to grow to greater size due to their habitat when compared to say the Current River. I'm not here debating the ethics of the rules (i.e. whether or not triploids should be considered rainbows). I'm analyzing the circumstances by applying the governing rules to the specific set of facts and making my observations accordingly.

I would love to have an intelligent discussion on this issue though I have yet to see the logic in your statements thus far and must therefore respectfully disagree with your opinion on the matter.

[bigredbirdfan]

Actually, I have always considered steroids cheating because they have been a controlled substance, the possession of which is a felony, since before I was born.

I would also distinguish between using steroids and targeting genetically larger fish. By using steroids, an athlete is affirmatively choosing to sacrifice his integrity and the image of the sport that he represents by engaging in criminal behavior. That athlete is also unfairly disadvantaging his opponents by playing outside the rules. The record brothers, conversely, are using legal methods to target a fish legally classified as a rainbow trout that is legally stocked by a regulating authority. They are not breaking any laws or engaging in questionable ethical behavior. They are playing by the rules 100%. As far as the comment about finding an edge over others who don't target freakishly large fish, I would have to respond by comparing the targeting of triploid rainbows to the targeting of trophy brown trout in tailwaters such as Lake Taneycomo where they are able to grow to greater size due to their habitat when compared to say the Current River. I'm not here debating the ethics of the rules (i.e. whether or not triploids should be considered rainbows). I'm analyzing the circumstances by applying the governing rules to the specific set of facts and making my observations accordingly.

I would love to have an intelligent discussion on this issue though I have yet to see the logic in your statements thus far and must therefore respectfully disagree with your opinion on the matter.

While you may give respect to these two niche world record holders I will not and since I won't pony up a membership fee to IGA I can't access the rules. I do have logic to my argument allow me to point it out to you. Perphaps I should have used "performance enhancing substances" I don't think it matters either way. You see these athletes seeked to obtain an edge over others with similar or equal god given skills and athleticism. Clearly fishermen who choose to gain an advantage over other fishermen with similar or equal god given skills by targeting a gentically altered strain of rainbow could be compared to athletes. The additional irony I like here is at the time they both thought they were above scrutinity of other professinals.

[Micheal Kyle]

I do not think we are comparing apples to apples.

I think that DNA and performance enhancing substance are 2 entirely different things.

There is a huge controversy right now about a woman in Track and field I believe she is from Jamaica she possesses the DNA of a Man but has the Parts of a woman. They are trying to decide if she should be allowed to still compete in the division that she does. she takes no performance enhancing drugs she is just playing the cards that God has given her.

The reason that I bring this up like this is because these are genetically DNA different fish made from a lab after that they are thrown out into the society of a fishes life and if they survive then they get big. It is not like they are coming back once a week for some drink or a shot.

I am a member of the IGFA and they have no rules about Triploid. It has to be caught in a legal manor on legal tackle and I believe that these 2 gentlemen did that.

So BRAVO for them.

I know if I had access to these fish I would be out there everyday trying to break records.

I say put them in there and lets us start Exploiting the resource.

[Flysmallie]

I say put them in there and lets us start Exploiting the resource.

I've heard that you are all about that.

[bigredbirdfan]

I assume I'm in the minority on the twenkie cheaters and thats fine I'm in the minority on lots of issues these days, but choose my principles over popularity.

While fishermen with large egos and lesser male endowment will pursue every world fishing record out there also exists the possiblity that some unsuspecting father and son have an equal opportuinty at the same record. Hopefully god will bless them over the egotistical fisherman. Enjoy the DNA pissing match as I could care less

[Randall]

While you may give respect to these two niche world record holders I will not and since I won't pony up a membership fee to IGA I can't access the rules. I do have logic to my argument allow me to point it out to you. Perphaps I should have used "performance enhancing substances" I don't think it matters either way. You see these athletes seeked to obtain an edge over others with similar or equal god given skills and athleticism. Clearly fishermen who choose to gain an advantage over other fishermen with similar or equal god given skills by targeting a gentically altered strain of rainbow could be compared to athletes. The additional irony I like here is at the time they both thought they were above scrutinity of other professinals.

Very good. Rather than posting conclusory statements you supported your position by showing how you arrived at those conclusions. I'm going to challenge your logic though because I again must disagree. While these brothers are capitalizing on an advantage not readily available to all other anglers, I fail to see how their behavior could be compared to the use of "performance enhancing substances." I would compare it more to an environmental advantage, for example a marathon runner who lives and trains at a high altitude. In that case, the marathon runner becomes accustomed to exerting himself in a relatively oxygen-poor environment, causing his red blood cell count and oxygenation ability to increase. A runner who trains at sea level, conversely does not have that advantage. You now have two theoretically equal marathon runners, one of which has an edge over the other. Should the runner who lives and trains at a high altitude be excluded from the record books for capitalizing on an environmental advantage which is available-though not readily- to the runner who lives and trains at sea level?

These brothers have no control over the presence of triploids, just as the runner at high altitude has no control over advantage provided by training in his environment. By choosing to capitalize on those advantages, the brothers, just as the runner, have an edge over their competition that any other fisherman or runner could capitalize on as well. Would you say that a person who lives in Branson and fishes Taneycomo exlcusively targeting big browns is cheating a person that lives in Salem and fishes only the Current River when both are seeking to catch a state record brown?

It is apparent that you are firmly against the breeding and stocking of triploid rainbows. I'm not debating you on that point. Should triploids be classified differently than other rainbows? Maybe. I really don't care. The fact is that triploids are actively bred and stocked throughout the country. The IGFA recognizes them as a rainbow trout for purposes of its records. Granted contemporary fishermen have an advantage over those of yesterday for that reason, but then again, baseball players play more games now than they did in the days of Babe Ruth. Would you call Roger Maris a cheater for breaking the Babe's record when he played more games?

I will not fault anybody for playing by the rules or being advantaged by circumstances outside their control.

[Fly_Guy]

If this were the largemouth bass record on the line, you perhaps would see a different angle. If a triploid bass (not just a different strain) were bred, and caught and replaced the record, people who have fished in florida and cali for a record would go BALLISTIC!!

The easy solution that should make everyone happy is to make a seperate record for triploid trout. It would kill the controversy, because who cares, really? Randall said as much - the people who care most about classification are the ones that think they SHOULD be classified differently. And that's perfectly ok. I'm not going to say these guys were cheaters, because if these trout were in Taney, of course I'd be targeting them!! They're dad-gum huge! Can't fault these guys for fishing for them.