Solo Canoes

[smallmouthjoe]

Why is it that longer canoes track better? Is it because the sheer size of the canoe moving through the water is harder for the friction force of the water to displace?

Eric, my major is wildlife bio. and it's really hard to get a job in this field without a masters degree. Plus I love learning about all things biology and ecology related so it's really enjoyable. The part that really sucks are all the auxiliary classes that I guess I will need, physics, trig,calculus, geology, etc.... I guess they're really not all that bad, geology is really interesting, at least the fossil and the plate tectonics part of it is.

I think I'll go with the guide, I'm going to call the St. Peters store tomorrow and see if they can ship it to the Columbia store. If that's not an option I'll wait until I have some time and call the St. Peter store and see if they still have it. Thanks guys, you've all been a really big help.

[eric1978]

Why is it that longer canoes track better? Is it because the sheer size of the canoe moving through the water is harder for the friction force of the water to displace?

Eric, my major is wildlife bio. and it's really hard to get a job in this field without a masters degree. Plus I love learning about all things biology and ecology related so it's really enjoyable. The part that really sucks are all the auxiliary classes that I guess I will need, physics, trig,calculus, geology, etc.... I guess they're really not all that bad, geology is really interesting, at least the fossil and the plate tectonics part of it is.

I think I'll go with the guide, I'm going to call the St. Peters store tomorrow and see if they can ship it to the Columbia store. If that's not an option I'll wait until I have some time and call the St. Peter store and see if they still have it. Thanks guys, you've all been a really big help.

Al would be better at explaining the physics of tracking, but if you look at it this way it makes some sense:

If you dropped a plastic knife and a paper plate in the water, the knife will tend to take a more linear path with the current, while the paper plate would also float with the current, but would tend to spin around also. The longer and sharper the canoe is, the more it cuts through the water like an arrow, keeping bow and stern aligned with the flow of the stream. The Guides are a little shorter and fatter than the Vagabonds, but the Guides have a small, rounded keel, which helps some with tracking. The keel can also cut down on maneuverability, but I found mine quite maneuverable regardless. My biggest problem with the keel is if you ride up on a boulder or some slab of rock it can tip over to one side and screw up your balance. It's been said a million times that no canoe is perfect, but you can adapt pretty quickly to whatever peccadilloes your craft might have.

Wildlife biology sounds like a pretty cool major. Yeah, it may not be the most lucrative field and it may be a little tough finding jobs in it, but guess what? You're gonna like what you do, and that's more than most people can say. If I could rewind my life and finish college like I should have, I think I'd do something like what you're doing. Keep your nose to the grindstone, you'll thank yourself one day for all the suffering you're doing now.

[Al Agnew]

The ratio of length to waterline width is usually greater on longer canoes...in other words, a 30 inch wide 14 footer will track better than a 30 inch 12 footer, simply because it's more slender.

But those little keels on the Pack and Guide and Disco 19 don't do anything for tracking, actually, nor do they make any difference in maneuverability. They are not meant to do so. They are molded that way solely to stiffen the bottom of the canoe and make it do less flexing (oil-canning). Canoes like the Pack and Guide that have relatively wide, flat bottoms need the stiffening that the so-called keel does, while a shallow arch bottom like on the Vagabond does not. Eric is right, however, in that they can actually make the canoe a bit less stable when the "keel" hangs up on something, and they also concentrate the wear and tear on the bottom of the canoe a little more.

[eric1978]

The ratio of length to waterline width is usually greater on longer canoes...in other words, a 30 inch wide 14 footer will track better than a 30 inch 12 footer, simply because it's more slender.

But those little keels on the Pack and Guide and Disco 19 don't do anything for tracking, actually, nor do they make any difference in maneuverability. They are not meant to do so. They are molded that way solely to stiffen the bottom of the canoe and make it do less flexing (oil-canning). Canoes like the Pack and Guide that have relatively wide, flat bottoms need the stiffening that the so-called keel does, while a shallow arch bottom like on the Vagabond does not. Eric is right, however, in that they can actually make the canoe a bit less stable when the "keel" hangs up on something, and they also concentrate the wear and tear on the bottom of the canoe a little more.

Hmmm...I always learn something. I thought it was a keel, but your use of quotation marks now makes me wonder. Does it have another name? I'm surprised you say it doesn't have an effect on tracking or maneuverability since it is a point of friction in the water, and the shape of it you would assume would be beneficial to tracking since it runs front to back. I'd also assume it would slow a turn (to some slight degree), since it is just a little more resistance to the direction you're turning. I can see it being insignificant and there solely for structural purposes, but I was hoping to find out it added some benefit as well. Oh well, still very satisfied with it.

[ness]

Hmmm...I always learn something. I thought it was a keel, but your use of quotation marks now makes me wonder. Does it have another name? I'm surprised you say it doesn't have an effect on tracking or maneuverability since it is a point of friction in the water, and the shape of it you would assume would be beneficial to tracking since it runs front to back. I'd also assume it would slow a turn (to some slight degree), since it is just a little more resistance to the direction you're turning. I can see it being insignificant and there solely for structural purposes, but I was hoping to find out it added some benefit as well. Oh well, still very satisfied with it.

Eric, would a keel on your paper plate help much?

Keels are typically found on wide/flat hulls. I'm not really a fan of the flat and wide designs that are so popular with the canoes billed as 'fishing' canoes (with or without a keel). They offer a lot of 'initial stability' so it takes a lot to get one to start tipping. But they lack in 'secondary stability', that is once it starts to tip you're toast.

With the wide/flat design you have to work harder to get where you're going -- whether it be straight in front of you or anywhere else -- because you're moving so much more water out of the way. The more narrow, rounded bottom canoes will not only track well, but will turn or go against the current better.

Just some things to think about.

[smallmouthjoe]

Thanks guys, I'm still relatively new to canoes and kayak so this is really helpful info.

[MaxDrown]

I live in Columbia. Let me know if you can use any help.

[eric1978]

Okay, this is the most relevant definition of "keel" I could find:

1. (Transport / Nautical Terms) one of the main longitudinal structural members of a vessel to which the frames are fastened and that may extend into the water to provide lateral stability

So I guess Al's right that what's on my canoe is not a keel, since it seems a keel is intended for lateral(?) stability. I'm going to pretend it does something.

[Wayne SW/MO]

In a draft vessel the profile of the side and how it relates to the bottom can be important to secondary stability.

For you Ness.

[ness]

Way ,

I tot y a ree.