Rainbow Spawn Alert!

[kdan]

I must say it is soooo good to see that someone actually knows whats going on with the "wild trout" spawn. Thanks laker.

[kdan]

Well, I can't just let it go at that. So let me see if this is what really happens. These "native wild trout" will spawn down on the NorFork in Dec and if they survive the first few feet with out being eat, all those eggs will lay around till the water warms up next year and hatch. lol Good grief folks, according to the MDC, less than 1% of the millions and millions of eggs spawned will actually hatch. Now then after they hatch, they will need to survive long enough to grow into a "trout minnow". I ask you what does a big ol brown eat?? ummm lemme see, would that be a minnow, maybe??? So the chances of that spawn going on down on the Norfork now of producing a real live rainbow is so slim it isn't worth calculating. In this day and age of heavy fishing on every trout water in the state (and Ark) catching a "native wild trout" is nothing more than a pipe dream.

But I will go along with you all and watch where I step.

[Greg]

Well, I can't just let it go at that. So let me see if this is what really happens. These "native wild trout" will spawn down on the NorFork in Dec and if they survive the first few feet with out being eat, all those eggs will lay around till the water warms up next year and hatch. lol Good grief folks, according to the MDC, less than 1% of the millions and millions of eggs spawned will actually hatch. Now then after they hatch, they will need to survive long enough to grow into a "trout minnow". I ask you what does a big ol brown eat?? ummm lemme see, would that be a minnow, maybe??? So the chances of that spawn going on down on the Norfork now of producing a real live rainbow is so slim it isn't worth calculating. In this day and age of heavy fishing on every trout water in the state (and Ark) catching a "native wild trout" is nothing more than a pipe dream.

But I will go along with you all and watch where I step.

If by the "NorFork" you are meaning the North Fork of the White as mentioned in Brian's post - then you are completely wrong. All of the thousands of rainbows in that stream are wild.

http://family-outdoors.com/north_fork_of_the_white_river.htm

Wild trout are not a "pipe dream" on the NFOW.

Greg

[Randall]

I found a couple documents produced by the Missouri Department of Conservation to supplement what Greg said and posted.

http://mdc.mo.gov/fish/sport/trout/wildspawn.htm

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/25.pdf

See page 3, 10, 26.

The report located at the second link states that there are several streams in Missouri that support self-sustaining wild trout populations, the NFOW being one.

[Greg]

I must say it is soooo good to see that someone actually knows whats going on with the "wild trout" spawn. Thanks laker.

Brian Wise most definitely qualifies as an expert on wild trout spawning on the NFOW. If he says they are spawning you can believe it.

Greg

[laker67]

Brian Wise most definitely qualifies as an expert on wild trout spawning on the NFOW. If he says they are spawning you can believe it.

Greg

I didn't say that I didn't believe him. What I said was they do it at the wrong time of the year just like hatchery fish. Which leads me to believe that they never leave behind their hatchery upbringing and never truly revert to being a wild trout. If they did, then the 1880 fish from Crane would spawn in the spring. All diploid trout go through the motions of spawn regardless of the outcome. With one percent success ratio out of millions, you have a population. But not thousands of trout per mile like someone said. More like 20 or 30 fish held up in a good run and then nothing until you come to the next good run or holding area. A wild trout in missouri, "is" a pipe dream. I'm not an expert like some, just a fisherman that observes.

[Greg]

But not thousands of trout per mile like someone said. More like 20 or 30 fish held up in a good run and then nothing until you come to the next good run or holding area. I'm not an expert like some, just a fisherman that observes.

If you can believe what the MDC and other sources cite then the NFOW holds about 1000 wild trout per mile. Now personally I've never seen that many!! (LOL). I'm not an expert either.

Greg

[Randall]

So what you're saying is that the dense population of rainbows in NFOW could not be sustained through natural reproduction which occurs in the manner that it does in that river?

[kdan]

I do not doubt for one moment they are spawning. Been there, seen it.

What is your definition of a "wild trout"? Is it a trout hatched in a hatchery, released, and then "turns" wild with age?? Or is it a trout spawned, hatched, and raised completly in the river? Granted the fisheries mentioned are as near "wild" as possible in our mid-west location. And what more of a thrill is there than to have one of those little "lightning bolts" on the end of your fly line?

My entire point is from a quote from one the posts above "we don't have stocker rainbows in the mix". At one time they were stockers, they didn't just suddenly show up.

If I take to heart as fact what I am reading then if all of a sudden all of our waters were catch and release we would no longer need the trout hatcheries?? The lakes and streams would now be self-supporting??? I think not.

Like I said befor, I have all ways watched where I step as not to disturb that 1% of eggs that might hatch.

And if you wanna call'em "wild" so be it. I call them fun to catch, but not a native wild species. I hope the "trout gods" for give me for disagreeing.

A case in point. There are instances of rainbows being caught in Spencer Creek here in Camden County. It is a small feeder stream to Lake of the Ozarks. Are they wild trout? Only in that they were not stocked there. They in fact came from Bennett Springs and migrated down stream many miles to only end up in Spencer Creek while it is still cold and the rest of the lake warming up. I wonder what happens to them when the creek dries up and the lake turns 80

degrees?

Heck! I am going to bed. Call'em what ever you want.

[laker67]

So what you're saying is that the dense population of rainbows in NFOW could not be sustained through natural reproduction which occurs in the manner that it does in that river?

I don't think the population is quite as dense as everyone would like for you to believe. Don't forget that alot of browns are stocked annually that add to the totals. One thing that nfow has going for it, is the high percentage of c and r fishermen. So with the one percent reproduction and the no kill line of thought, the numbers would maintain, maybe increase. I am glad there are reproducing hatchery trout in some areas. The wild part is mostly someone's vivid imagination.