Last Couple of Weeks

[Bill Babler]

Just to add a final touch and we'll close the topic. As far as the comsumption of bass this was never the issue. The point was guides killing spawning and short fish. Most of us could care less how many bass Sam eats.

I have never met Sam, but he falls into a demographic of the 50 and up bunch. I would bet my seat on the lifeboat that he is over 50 and has served for us in the military.

In the last 15 years I have taken people that have came up rough and believe anything they catch is due them. It probably is. If your a fisherman and like to eat bass, by gosh do it. My folks never met a fish they wouldn't eat. Their theory was its due them.

I have cleaned trout, crappie and white bass for clients that just had to have them and about 90% never eat the fish. There is always an excuse, they went bad or my wife won't let me fry fish in the kitchen and we threw them away. Only about 10% of the clients returning want to keep the fish the next year, they only want the fun of catching them.

A few years ago up at the knob, I saw a guy trolling a flat and catch a huge brown fish. I motored up to him to see what it was, thinking it was a fantastic walleye. I weighed the fish on my scales, it was a 6lb 10 oz. smallie. He hadn't put it on a stringer yet and I offered him a small legal walleye and 10 really nice whites, if he would throw it back. He said if it was the last fish swimming in the lake it was his to eat and told me where to get off. He told Bryant Ward the same thing a few days later when he was arrested for keeping short bass.

If you believe for 1 second that the bass limits on table rock lake are set for population maintaince and control, I have a wonderful piece of lake front property in Arizona you can have cheap.

After the fish kills in 99 and 2000, I asked the lake Bioligost why we just didn't lower the limit or close the season. He said if it was up to him steps would be taken, but the economic damage that would be done would be in the 100's of millions of dollars. Everything in this area is geared to table rock bass. From manufactoring to sales, fuel, lodging and national exposure. To say that the lake had a bass shortage and adversley effect any of the above would be catostropic to the region. The bass is the king, if we would have had a similar situation with the crappie, the crappie limit would have dropped dramatically, as there is very little economic prussure on the fish, and a reduced harvest would have been used for population increasement. They view the crappie as a consumption fish and the bass as a sport fish.

He said the powers that be, would not have it. Any change in the limits or status of bass would not be heard. MDC's number 1 management tool for table rock bass is that over 90% of the bass fisherman practice catch and release, this is the tool that the MDC uses to justify the creel limits. they realize that we are just not going to kill them.

As far as removing 100's lbs. of ky's bass to lower the competition for forage on table rock, nothing could be further from the truth. You take out 100 lbs, and it is gone forever. The caring capasity of predators in the rock is far below the forage base.

As far as the ky's dieing before they reach the legal length limit, Sam is right. Acually the majority of all three species die well before 12 inches as they are at that time on the lower end of the food chain.

MDC did a 5 year study on ky's and found that the majority of the ky's that reached the 12 inch mark, did make it to 15 inches. They also found that removing the fish between 12 and 15 inches took a valuable predator that consumed threadfin shad from the already narrow predator base, that is why they refused to lower the limit size to 12 inches, table rock needed the fish.

It was also found that while slow growing, the life span of the ky's was extremely long. Females were able to spawn into their teens, and add new recruitment to a lake that had suffered two major fish kills.

Although there is some overlap in territories, the 3 black bass species operate with totally different intentions. All, at times can be caught in the same areas, on the same baits, but you can also catch and fish for each of the subspecies using particular lures in home ranges of the species that really segrate the three.

Ky's prefer to occupy deep offshore structure and love to suspend in cove mouths over deep water, and they love company. They are threadfin eaters. It is not uncommon to catch them schooling and chasing shad in 150 to 200 ft. of water, on the top. Not really the prefered location for largemouth of smallies. Ky's for the most part are not ambush feeders, they are chasers.

They can live everywhere and nowhere, they are nomads, the only home they have is in the water, unlike a largemouth that lives in a particular cove or area the majority of the time, and a smallie that lives on state park beach, These guys like to travel. A few years ago, I caught the same fish 3 times, I knew her from a complete cut off top fin, and a huge slash on her tail. I caught her the first time off wolfpen on a fin. A couple of weeks later, I caught her on a split shot at Campbell Pt. and later in the year I caught her on a hump up the white. There was no mistaken identity possible, she was clearly marked. Three different clients had a wonderful time catching her and as far as I know she is still swimming.

Their actions at times resemble a walleye. Channel swings, mid-lake and deep humps hold these excellent fighting fish. They also love to push the threadfin to the top over these humps, where they can seperate the schools for forage. Again, where there is one, he usually has a friend or two.

The largemouth bass is the ultimate ambush feeder. Large portions of its day to day diet, come from blue gill, crappie, sunfish, frogs, other bass, small turtles and crawfish. He is the top predator in his hiddy hole and while it is not uncommon to have several largemouth in the same area, it is not for the most part the rule, he can be a loner. They prefer cover and water depths not nearly as extreme as the ky's, however they will adapt as temps fall in the winter and move away from the bank. That is why the river stretches of the lake hold the majority of these fish.

To even remotely think that removing portions of any of the bass species will enhance or add to the range of the others is just not how these fish operate. It will not happen.

Oklahoma Fish and Game a few years ago did an experment introducing Florida Strain largemouth to Grand Lake. It was a total falure in the aspect, that even though introduced as fry, and larger fish, they had no capasity to move off shore to deeper water in the winter. The Florida strain is an extreme shallow water predator and simpley could not or would not adapt to deep water. As the forage base moved to deeper water or thermocline and bass would not follow, and when the summer base forage was depleted in late fall the bass died off to a large extent.

Smallie's on the rock, love flat gravel and all the goodies that are found their. They not only will nibble any shad that comes by, but love the crawdaddys that live in these areas. They are also huge consumers of insects and small invertibrates, along with shore minnows and any unlucky tadpole or critter that falls from above. They are now and have been for years found over the entire lake system, mostly in seperate areas from the other two species. They love flat gravel, with no structure on it. Just wide open shallow flats. Not enough cover for the hiddy hole largemouth and not enough water over their heads for the ky's.

If we as catch and release fisherman give these wonderful fish a chance to procreate and do our best to let them spawn, Sam should have plenty of fillets to keep him happy. He is in the minority rather than the majority, and that is what MDC is counting on.

[Sam]

I have never met Sam, but he falls into a demographic of the 50 and up bunch. I would bet my seat on the lifeboat that he is over 50 and has served for us in the military.

Well, yeah. You've got me figured out.

I fished the White and James Rivers before the lake was there, and I watched them build the dam. I've camped on sandbars that are 60 feet underwater now - and boy, the fish we could catch back then with primitive equipment.

So many people have moved into the Ozarks, and it's so different now.

After reading your post, all I can say is that you seem to know a lot more about the biology of the fish in the lake than I do. I don't think there's really any disagreement between us at all, and now that I know better I'll quit agitating about "eating bass".

Now that I think about it, the last Tablerock bass I actually ate was last fall - about 30 fishing trips ago. And it was a 16-inch Largemouth that was gill-hooked and bleeding so bad it floated upside down after I released it, so I figured we might as well eat it.

90% of the time, I'm a crappie fisherman. I think you'll agree they belong next to the fried 'taters. The rest of the time, it's walleye, white bass, big perch, etc. I'm not bothering the glitter-boat bass-fishing crowd much.

The old-timers hobbies were all ACQUISITIVE, I guess - they felt if they were going to spend time on something they needed to gain something. I'm that way. I raise a big vegetable garden and we pretty well live off it. I put a deer in the freezer every year, and we eat every ounce of it. I have a permanent fish-cleaning table with lights, electricity, and running water built in my back yard, and there's nothing casual or wasteful about my bringing filets home.

When I used to play golf, the only thing I really liked about it was when I'd find extra golf balls and bring them home! When that happened I felt like I wasn't just wasting my time walking around a pasture. So, you're never going to find me catching legal crappie, taking pictures of them, and throwing them back in the lake. I don't look at fishing as a "game" - maybe you do?

But I pretty much leave the bass alone, and I am interested in keeping fishing good for everyone in the future. So, we pretty much agree about all this - I think.

[Phil Lilley]

Guess how old Babler is???!!

[Bill Babler]

Sam, I've got some of the best venison summer sausage you have ever layed a lip on. We'll have to get together over a horn of it and you can tell me about those wonderful times. I can't tell you the envy I have for you and those past days.

I wish it was as peachy now. I can be if we take care of it. No one is going to miss a few of those Ky fillets. Enjoy and God Bless You.

[Kicknbass]

It saddens me to hear rumors of a guide fishing the Shell Knob area and filleting spawning fish.

I have fished w/ several guides in differant parts of the country over the years. The best guides, the full time guides state up front that they guide C&R only all fish are returned immediatly. The reasons for this were similar. They make their living putting clients on fish. If the fish is returned then another client has a chance to catch the same fish. Largemouth are territorial and a fish can and will be catch several times near a territory if caugh and released. Bassmasters has a good article on the new world record bass from CA. The guys that caught this fish have documented catching this fish at 19 lbs, 21 lbs and 25 lbs. This fish had a mark on its right gill plate that appears in photos of this fish.

A guide that keeps fish or allows his clients to keep fish is constantly needing to find new fish making his job more difficult. A guide that fishes 200 + times per year could harvest several hunderd bass annually. As for the trophey catches. The replicas are too good to keep a large fish. Take photos, release the fish, and let the taxidermist paint a replica. They replace nearly everything on the fish anyway. Very little of the original fish is left, and the color is gone requiring a repaint.

If a weekend angler wants to keep and eat a bass or two so be it. I find nothing wrong with this. I release most of my bass, but not all. I like to have a fish fry or two, but prefer other fish such as bluegill and crappie, but if I need a little more to make a meal, I'll keep an occasional bass, but I don't make my living fishing, and am on the lake a handfull of days per year.

I'd like to see the tournament anglers go to a catch and release format. Measuring the fish and recording rather that weighing the fish. This is a much better gauge as to the fishes maturity and is much better for the fishery. I've caught short fat fish, and long skinny fish that weigh the same. I caught a huge smallie on the rock last year. He should have weighed 6 lbs by the charts, but this 21 inch fish only weighed 3 1/2 lbs. When I tell the story about catching him, his weight is omitted.

My 2 cents.

[Sam]

I'd like to see the tournament anglers go to a catch and release format. Measuring the fish and recording rather that weighing the fish. This is a much better gauge as to the fishes maturity and is much better for the fishery.

Now there's a good idea.

Those times I mentioned when I've seen lots of dead bass floating after a tournament weigh-in really bother me. I hate that kind of waste.

With the way digital cameras are now, it shouldn't be too hard to create a system in which tournament fishermen can document their catches and return the fish unharmed, back to where they were caught.

Some tackle company could start making a combination digital scale, ruler, and digital clock (showing the date and time). Fix those so they can't be tinkered with by the fishermen, and the "weigh-in" could simply be everyone submitting digital photos of their day's catches - with the fish's length, weight, and the date and time showing in the photos.

Yeah, I know. How would you keep someone from taking a picture of the same 5-lb. bass at three different times?

I don't have that figured out, but I wish someone would - and that tournaments could somehow go to immediate catch-and-release back to the locations where the fish are caught. That would do a world of good for the bass fishery, in my opinion.

[Phil Lilley]

Sam - The time(s) you said you've seen bass floating after a tournament, I'm curious if it's after a local "bass club" type tournament or a sanctioned regional or national tournament... the bigger, more organized contests boat the bass to various areas of the lake for release--I'd think releasing the fish at the dock would be almost frowned on by even clubs now a days.

I tried something many years ago after a trout tournament that ended in disaster. I filled a big tank with water and released the trout in the tank after they were weighed instead of carting them to the lake where they may not live. The idea was we could work with the ones that were having trouble. Problem - I filled the tank with well water--too warm and not enough O2. They all died- quickly. So I know first hand good intentions can end in a bad way. Accidents do happen but we learn.

[Martin]

Question: Why is it OK with you guys to kill and clean every walleye you catch, especially the egg filled walleyes that many people fish for only in Febuary and March, and it's not OK to kill and clean every egg filled nesting bass you catch...??

Somebodies thinking is all screwed up here.

[Phil Lilley]

Not sure if you're 100% right on the statement that everyone kills all legal walleye, regardless of spawn or not but I understand your point. I guess it's because they're at the top of the list of fish that taste good- very good. And for most people catching a legal walleye is rare- an accomplishment of sorts. But I'd say that there are those who fish for walleye alot and are successful at catching them that do release a walleye he or she can identify as a sow with eggs.

Good point though.

There's a gal who works at the local Wal Mart that told someone in front of me at the checkout line that she lives on Bull Shoals and loves to catch walleye. In fact, she said, she'd had just caught several 16 inch walleye the night before that went directly to the dinner table. She said she didn't pay much attention to the limits... they taste so good. My turn - I told her I didn't appreciate her conservation ethics and warned her of the fines. She didn't say much but I when I'm at WalMart and see her, I still think of her as the walleye thief.

[Sam]

Sam - The time(s) you said you've seen bass floating after a tournament, I'm curious if it's after a local "bass club" type tournament or a sanctioned regional or national tournament

Phil - The times I've seen it, it's been after local "bass club" type tournaments, for sure.

I'm not a tournament fisherman, and I'm not meaning to step on any toes here. I know tournament fishermen go to great lengths to keep fish alive, and they get penalized for weighing dead fish. The big sanctioned tournaments are very good at keeping fish alive and returning them properly, I'm sure.

I hope I'm not making anyone mad - I don't know any individuals involved, at all. For years there was a local summer tournament every Wednesday night out of K Dock (Bull Shoals). It would be about a dozen boats and I've heard, but don't know, that they were a club out of the Chadwick area. They'd weigh in at midnight then go home. I also don't know if that tournament is still going on, as I didn't do any night fishing out of there last year.

Several times when it happened to be a Wednesday, I've quit fishing and come into K Dock about 2 a.m. I've seen 100+ pounds of dead bass floating for 200 yards down the lake - including a few 5-pounders and an occasional 6-pounder! It made me sick to see all those good fish killed in Upper Bull Shoals, where big bass have been so scarce in recent years.

And I'll confess - a couple of those times I netted some of the smaller ones whose gills were still barely moving, to fill out my bass limit. That's illegal I know, but I was coming home with crappie and catfish filets anyway - and we got some good out of it, as opposed to the mud turtles getting them.

A local tackle shop that I won't name was also running a weekly night tournament, usually out of Cape Fair or Aunt's Creek, and I've seen the same results after those - in the summertime and around the weigh-in locations. That shop has changed ownership and I heard that club broke up, and they're not having tournaments any more.

But every time I've seen that, it's been "local" tournaments. The guys doing it, in my experience, are the same ones that will run at 60 mph with their glitter boats, after dark. They'll also almost sink a crappie fisherman with their wakes, running so close - or they'll flat run over you with their big Ford trucks on the way to and from the lake. So, I think it's the mentality of the people involved.

And, in fairness, all the nights when I've seen dead tournament bass floating have been in the summer with the surface water temp about 82. On those same nights I've been absolutely unable to keep crappie alive in my live well, and often couldn't even keep the catfish alive - so I don't know how anyone could expect to keep bass alive in those conditions. But maybe they shouldn't have tournaments when it's like that?

I have nothing but admiration for the folks who run good tournaments and run them right. I just think it's a shame when a lot of good fish are wasted by the few people who don't do it that way.