Missouri Bass

[Chief Grey Bear]

Now that we have opened the subject of watching out for all the critters in Missouri it brings other things to mind. Missouri is trying to reinstate the Prairie Chicken. I think that is great because they were a native species. This program is undoubtedly expensive and from what I understand it is not taking off like we had hoped.

Technicnally the MDC is attempting to restore the declining population of Prairie Chickens.

Compared to other restoration projects, it is low cost. The bird are practically free. The state of Kansas is letting Missouri have the birds for free. All the MDC has to do is go and trap them themselves. So other than a little gas and motel money, that is about it. And the birds are transported and released within 24-36hrs of capture.

I wish the MDC would have started working on the Prairie Chickens earlier. Like at least in the 1980's when there were still somewhat good populations. I went on Prairie Chicken count with the MDC last week and did not see a bird where just, say, 15-20 years ago you could find a lek with 60 birds.

But like fishing regulations, to stop hunting them is not a fix all. Hunting Prairie Chickens in Missouri stopped in 1906. It takes many factors to come together in unison for this project to work. I hope it does work. I want my children to be able to enjoy the spring booming on a lek. Simply awesome!

[Stockton Lake Guide Service]

As for the bass in stockton, I think it has become one of the (if not the best) bass lake in the state. It often takes over a 20lb bag to win a tournament, and sometimes over 25 lbs. That is a 5lb avg. The state record in missouri has stood since 1967, and I personally like the idea that not everyone can go out and catch one bigger than that. If we start changing all the ways we do things, then it's nothing more than hunting big deer on a texas ranch, and I don't really want so much tourist that the lake becomes crowded. I would love to have that fish land in my boat one day, but not if we had to shoot it up with steroids to get it there.

As far as putting in a slot limit for bass and walleye I'm for it. I don't keep bass, even on guide trips usually, but some people love to eat them and either putting in a slot limit or only having one over a certain length might help, but I would have to leave the answer to that one to one of those biologist people.

I personally feel that mdc has done an excellent job with the fish in stockton. I love the 10" limit on crappie and the only changes (if it was proven to help the fish size/pop) would be a slot limit or limit on the size etc. I'm sure that there are things that can be improved, but I got to leave that one to the experts, and make sure I know what they decided before I hit the lake.

[Walcrabass]

Regarding the Kentucky's- I lived in Fayetteville, AR for four years and fished Beaver lake often. Beaver has a 12" length limit on KY's and 15" on LM and SM. From what I have seen, the smaller length limit did not improve the LM production. In fact, the LM production on Beaver is not what I believe it could be. In my opinion Beaver is over run with 12" and smaller KY's. My guess is that the 12" length limit on KY's hasn't increased the number of "harvested" fish, but rather increased the number of 12" fish being weighed in tournaments. This being said, I would not be opposed to decreasing the length limit on Kentucky's, I just don't think it would have as great of impact on the LM's as would be hoped for.

As for identifying the fish.....I have seen many tournament anglers bring in short LM thinking they were 12" KY's. The smaller fish are the harder it is to tell the difference. I can do it just fine, but there are plenty of people out there that can't.

I also don't like the idea of genetically modifying our bass population. If mother nature is struggling I am all for helping, but I don't think thats the case here. I think that Stockton is about as awesome as they come (caught a 5lber out of a 12ft jon on friday). Table Rock is an awesome fishery and when you think about the amount of tournament's, guides, and just number of people on the lake, you have to admit the bass population is thriving. If its not broke, don't fix it.

Overall I think the MDC is doing a good job. They don't have the same amount/type of resources as Texas, California, or Florida. I competed in collegiate tournaments and had the opportunity to discuss "Texas Trophy Lakes" with some guys from UT while at a tournament. They loved having huge bass and great lakes to support them, but they also expressed that it was somewhat of a beast of burden. They have those awesome lakes, but the ones that have the huge populations of 12lb+ bass often have funky slot limits or restrictions that aren't conducive to tournaments. Lake Fork is a prime example of this, 16" to 24" can't be kept and only one over 24". So they do have these awesome lakes, but they also come at a price. Now, as far as MDC new draw procedures for some of the duck parks, thats a different story....

[Walcrabass]

Thanks for your reply all this information is great. I am puzzled though. Since Beaver has a 12" limit on the Kentucky Bass and the Lake is over run with 12" and smaller Kentuckies, then the rule must be working. If it wasn't then the lake would be over run with 15" and smaller Kentucky Bass like our lakes. As far as if it isn't broke then don't fix it I think back to the 1960's. Table Rock was a young lake. Fishing pressure was much less. I remember one guide and his clients catching 52( I think) Largemouth over 10 pounds in a single year. Things have obviously changed. We need different regulations now to compensate for these changes. I don't think that the Anglers that were mentioned from the states that had Big Bass would give up their big fish for more peaceful fishing. In fact I think that Texas, Florida, and California would laugh at us if we asked them. Let's all really think about this Kentucky thing. From what I can see the Lakes that have slot lengths to protect the spawning size Bass have all got us beat. We just need to adjust the length for the different species spawning size.( Like maybe make it small enough that they haven't spawned yet.

[Walcrabass]

Regarding the Kentucky's- I lived in Fayetteville, AR for four years and fished Beaver lake often. Beaver has a 12" length limit on KY's and 15" on LM and SM. From what I have seen, the smaller length limit did not improve the LM production. In fact, the LM production on Beaver is not what I believe it could be. In my opinion Beaver is over run with 12" and smaller KY's. My guess is that the 12" length limit on KY's hasn't increased the number of "harvested" fish, but rather increased the number of 12" fish being weighed in tournaments. This being said, I would not be opposed to decreasing the length limit on Kentucky's, I just don't think it would have as great of impact on the LM's as would be hoped for.

As for identifying the fish.....I have seen many tournament anglers bring in short LM thinking they were 12" KY's. The smaller fish are the harder it is to tell the difference. I can do it just fine, but there are plenty of people out there that can't.

I also don't like the idea of genetically modifying our bass population. If mother nature is struggling I am all for helping, but I don't think thats the case here. I think that Stockton is about as awesome as they come (caught a 5lber out of a 12ft jon on friday). Table Rock is an awesome fishery and when you think about the amount of tournament's, guides, and just number of people on the lake, you have to admit the bass population is thriving. If its not broke, don't fix it.

Overall I think the MDC is doing a good job. They don't have the same amount/type of resources as Texas, California, or Florida. I competed in collegiate tournaments and had the opportunity to discuss "Texas Trophy Lakes" with some guys from UT while at a tournament. They loved having huge bass and great lakes to support them, but they also expressed that it was somewhat of a beast of burden. They have those awesome lakes, but the ones that have the huge populations of 12lb+ bass often have funky slot limits or restrictions that aren't conducive to tournaments. Lake Fork is a prime example of this, 16" to 24" can't be kept and only one over 24". So they do have these awesome lakes, but they also come at a price. Now, as far as MDC new draw procedures for some of the duck parks, thats a different story....

[Walcrabass]

Thanks for the reply. I think that all this information is great. As for the 12" length on Beaver not working I had this thought. If it wsn't working then wouldn't the lake be full of 15" and smaller Kentucky Bass like our lakes? Maybe if the length was set smaller to like 10 or 11" their numbers would be even less. I am thinking back to the 1960's about if it isn't broke don't fix it. I remember a guide on Table rock Lake and his clients catching 52(I Think) Largemouth over 10 pounds in a single year. Granted fishing pressure and other things have changed. I think that is exactly why we need to change our regulations to fit our present time. Concerning the states that have bigger Bass think about this scenario. If we told them to decrease the size of their Bass so that they could have more peaceful fishing or less tourist fisherman I believe their answer would be a great big NO!!! In fact I think they would laugh at us( especially being from Missouri, Arkansas, etc.) Let's give this Kentucky thing some real deep thinking. I would like to see some improvements before my rest home days. Maybe catch and release concerning the Kentucky Bass isn't such a great idea. I would enjoy hearing from others with good comments.

[fozzie.]

Thanks for the reply. I think that all this information is great. As for the 12" length on Beaver not working I had this thought. If it wsn't working then wouldn't the lake be full of 15" and smaller Kentucky Bass like our lakes? Maybe if the length was set smaller to like 10 or 11" their numbers would be even less. I am thinking back to the 1960's about if it isn't broke don't fix it. I remember a guide on Table rock Lake and his clients catching 52(I Think) Largemouth over 10 pounds in a single year. Granted fishing pressure and other things have changed. I think that is exactly why we need to change our regulations to fit our present time. Concerning the states that have bigger Bass think about this scenario. If we told them to decrease the size of their Bass so that they could have more peaceful fishing or less tourist fisherman I believe their answer would be a great big NO!!! In fact I think they would laugh at us( especially being from Missouri, Arkansas, etc.) Let's give this Kentucky thing some real deep thinking. I would like to see some improvements before my rest home days. Maybe catch and release concerning the Kentucky Bass isn't such a great idea. I would enjoy hearing from others with good comments.

I'm not so sure- there's lots of folks moving to SWMO from California and other points west for various reasons- fewer people, cheaper cost of living, etc. It'd be a great poll, and I'd love to see the results.

I think part of the problem is the definition of a quality fishing experience, and I'm sure it's a metric MDC has to wrestle with on a consistent basis. Is it all about catching 10+ lb bass, or are their other elements of the experience which matter? IMO, fishing in relative solitude, myself alone with a few close friends and our thoughts, is at least as important as catching a wallhanger.

[ckjacks]

Thanks for the reply. I think that all this information is great. As for the 12" length on Beaver not working I had this thought. If it wsn't working then wouldn't the lake be full of 15" and smaller Kentucky Bass like our lakes? Maybe if the length was set smaller to like 10 or 11" their numbers would be even less. I am thinking back to the 1960's about if it isn't broke don't fix it. I remember a guide on Table rock Lake and his clients catching 52(I Think) Largemouth over 10 pounds in a single year. Granted fishing pressure and other things have changed. I think that is exactly why we need to change our regulations to fit our present time. Concerning the states that have bigger Bass think about this scenario. If we told them to decrease the size of their Bass so that they could have more peaceful fishing or less tourist fisherman I believe their answer would be a great big NO!!! In fact I think they would laugh at us( especially being from Missouri, Arkansas, etc.) Let's give this Kentucky thing some real deep thinking. I would like to see some improvements before my rest home days. Maybe catch and release concerning the Kentucky Bass isn't such a great idea. I would enjoy hearing from others with good comments.

I have stated my opinion, but I don't think you have fully comprehended what I was trying to convey.

Comparing the 1960's to present day is reasonable, but you also have to understand some other variables. My parents were still in grade school back then, but I would say that it is a safe bet that the number of fish to the number of fisherman was greater. The odds of catching a 10lb bass were greater, just like you said. But, when you multiply the fishermen by 1000%, then there are going to be far fewer 10lb bass caught per person. I understand that fishing isn't a formula, but this is logical.

Just like fozzie said, I don't think you can define how good a lake is by simply by the number of trophy bass in it. Sure its a factor, but if you are fishing elbow to elbow...how good is it?

I think that there are some other things that we should also consider. If my memory serves me correct, the lake levels of stockton were down over the mid 2000's. Compared to the last couple years of plentiful rains. I think that low lake levels might have had an affect on bass forage due to the amount of cover for baitfish, but hopefully the abundance of cover over the last couple of years will result in larger and more plentiful bass in the near future. However, I could be wrong about the amount of overall lake levels for the last 5 or 6 years. A change in the length limit might help the lake, but it also might be a shock to the system while it is in a cycle of change.

I will end my post by suggesting a couple alternatives.

-One reason for the massive size of bass in California is the trout that live in their lakes. Taneycomo has a fair bass population, but I would not say an awesome population. I think that this would be a great lake to put very restrictive regulations on to encourage 10lb+ bass. I think that this lake is set up for tourism. It would welcome the added traffic. Rockaway Beach is not the place that I remember when I was little and not even close to what it used to be when my parents were younger. Being known as a place you can catch a 10lber on a huge swimbait would certainly draw people that can't make the pilgrimage to Clear lake. I don't think that you would run into the fuss from tournament anglers about strict regulations, because there aren't many, if any bass tournaments on taney. However, I am sure that there would be some concern over the trout population. This is where you would run into roadblocks. But, I do think it is a reasonable suggestion. I also realize that it would be welcomed by some and hated by many trout fisherman that do not want to see their lake changed.

-I believe that Lake Springfield could also be a good place to manage specifically for huge bass. I think that it is safe to eat bass from here, but I would not be disappointed if you told me I could not keep bass from lake springfield. The number of people fishing this lake is astronomical, but most of these are not after bass. There are currently some really nice bass in this lake and the grass is really fun to pitch if you know how, but I think that this place could definately be improved. I think the power plant also adds some resources to the picture. However, since the warm water is next to the dam, the warmwater does not reach the whole lake in the winter time. It might promote big bass if you were to prohibit fishing during the winter months around the plant, but again this would upset some because you are changing something they are fond of.