The Bass Thing

[fozzie.]

Thinking about it this morning, I guess my biggest reservation about just dumping Florida strain

(or hybrids) into our state's waters boils down to that old saying: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Kudzu, fescue, Autumn Olive, multiflora rose, Korean lespedeza, the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park- they were all introduced at some point because folks thought they'd be an asset. Instead, they've turned into major problems for many people, as well as wildlife and the ecosystem in general. On the aquatic side, there's tons of documentation of situations where people thought planting X or Y species would benefit an established fishery (pike, emerald shiners, rusty crayfish, nile tilapia, rainbow trout, brown trout, brook trout, white perch, common carp, and flathead catfish all come to mind). In many instances the outcome wasn't what folks expected- stunted fish, competition with native/more desirable species, wholesale destruction of fisheries, environmental damage, and in some instances local extinction of species. It's hard to predict what will happen when you start @#!#in' around with nature.

All I'm saying is that before we rush headlong into something, we need some basic questions answered. At minimum, we need to know these introductions won't have a negative impact on the species and resources we already have.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Flatheads??????

[fozzie.]

Flatheads??????

I may have stretched it with that one, but I thought flatheads were introduced to some eastern drainages in Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc, and had some negative interactions there with other species. Plus I know a couple pond owners who have dumped flatheads into their impoundment in hopes of catching a 30 pounder in a few years. Sometimes they do, but more often I hear them wondering about where all the bass and bluegill went.

Substitute them with smallmouth bass, atlantic salmon, or grass carp if you'd like : )

[Chief Grey Bear]

Ohhh, I was thinking Missouri waters.

[Walcrabass]

maybe I am reading something wrong here, but you say that the hybrid females are more successful at reproducing, they can't reproduce because, the two different species have two different numbers of chromosomes.

Species can reproduce within their own species, because each individual within the species has the same number of chromosomes.

The hybrids can't reproduce because the sex cells would never be fertilized, as their chromosomes would be wrong. The hybrids would never occur in nature, and they were created by man, I don't know how they accomplished this, but, anyway, thats why the hybrids can't reproduce.

I hope this makes sense and I didn't misread your post, but if the fish is a hybrid, then from what I have learned and read, they won't reproduce.

[Walcrabass]

Unless I read one of the articles wrong the "hybrids" or "Crosses" or whatever is the correct name for these fish do have the ability to reproduce.

[straw hat]

You are right walcrabass. The Florida and Northern are both subspecies of the same species, Largemouth Bass. Both having the same number of chromosomes. Being subspecies they can cross breeb and the off spring can reproduce.

This is different than say Stripers. A species such as Stripers can breed with a different species such as White Bass ifthey have the same number of chromosomes and a matching number of genes on each chromosome. This almost always limits the crosses to members of the same family (sea bass in this example). However, this type of offspring (hybrid) is almost always sterile and can not spawn.

[Walcrabass]

You are right walcrabass. The Florida and Northern are both subspecies of the same species, Largemouth Bass. Both having the same number of chromosomes. Being subspecies they can cross breeb and the off spring can reproduce.

This is different than say Stripers. A species such as Stripers can breed with a different species such as White Bass ifthey have the same number of chromosomes and a matching number of genes on each chromosome. This almost always limits the crosses to members of the same family (sea bass in this example). However, this type of offspring (hybrid) is almost always sterile and can not spawn.

[Walcrabass]

Concerning other articles I have read the Kentucky Bass can also interbreed and these offspring are also capable of spawning. This is why The MDC has targeted them on some of our creeks because they are causing the severe decline of the Smallmouth. Am I right " Straw Hat"?

[fozzie.]

Concerning other articles I have read the Kentucky Bass can also interbreed and these offspring are also capable of spawning. This is why The MDC has targeted them on some of our creeks because they are causing the severe decline of the Smallmouth. Am I right " Straw Hat"?

Sorry to keep jumping in, but yes- bag and length limits for spotted bass on some Missouri streams have been liberalized because the spots tend to hybridize with the smallmouth.

It kind of illustrates my point- "hybrid vigor," is sort of a toss-up, and without close study, you can't be positive of the outcome of the cross. For example, in bluegill x green sunfish crosses, you get larger fish faster. In the smallmouth x spotted bass cross, though, you wind up with large numbers of small, slow growing fish. Not the ideal situation if you're managing for trophy black bass.