More Smallie Action In River

[eric1978]

Don't tell PETA but I have been throwing Largies and Spots up on the bank since 1998

You don't need to remove the largemouth from the streams...they pose no threat to smallmouth. I have no problem with you doing that with the spots, but you should know it's actually illegal in MO to "waste the edible portion of a fish."

[ozark trout fisher]

I'm not talking about the legalities. I'm talking about your absolute claim that it does not have any effect on fish populations, and I'm asking you to provide us with any evidence that supports that claim. I don't pretend to know definitively either way, although I have my opinions. But you seem to have some info the rest of us don't, so please enlighten us...or do you just like to say dumb things? I know you're in the habit of making unsubstantiated assertions - that's pretty obvious by now - but how about a couple provable facts from you for a change?

Look, I agree with you about gigging, but why do you keep banging your head against the wall on this? It just doesn't work... People get pretty set in their beliefs, no matter how odd and incorrect they may be. There is no point in saying the same thing 10 or 15 times. The same people will continue to agree with you and the same folks will continue to argue.

There is no point whatsoever in starting yet another fight about the same thing we've already covered multiple times (with the same train wreck resulting every time).

[Chief Grey Bear]

People get pretty set in their beliefs, no matter how odd and incorrect they may be.

So anyone that does not agree with your point of view is odd and incorrect?

[drew03cmc]

A sportsman should never complain about another LEGAL sporting method like gigging, a long standing tradition here in the Ozarks. Just because you don't understand it or do it, its legal and some enjoy it. Just because you think they may take an bass or two you want to outlaw it. I would guarantee there are many more tickets written for undersize and over the limit bass fishing than there are gigging violations. If we were to use the same analogy and a gigger got on his high horse about people attacking undersize bass based on a few poachers he saw on the stream, he would want to abolish bass fishing.

Enforcement of existing laws is what we need, call the 1-800-392-1111 and report the poacher instead of complaining about a legal fishing method that does not affect the fish population.

Complaints are fuel for the fires of Anti Sportsman groups like PETA and others.

Honestly? The pictures of fish with gig marks on here are enough to enrage anyone. You seem indifferent about the giggers hitting bass. Are you one of them?

Enforcement apparently stops at sundown as the agents are seldom on the water after dark. If they were, they could catch some poachers. Sure, call the infraction in, but you will not see anyone there before 8am.

Can you honestly say that you cannot tell the difference between a sucker and a smallmouth under one of those gigantic halogens? They are knowingly taking these fish and you seem to think that because there is a tradition of gigging in the Ozarks that we should all just look the other way. Hell no. These people need to be stopped or educated (well, they probably failed that one the first time around). Stopping gigging will help smallmouth populations.

Since you seem to believe that gigging does not harm the populations, show us the data to back that outlandish claim up.

[ozark trout fisher]

So anyone that does not agree with your point of view is odd and incorrect?

I think some beliefs are odd, but that's subjective, and they also may or may not be incorrect even though I happen to think they are. The one thing I do know is that I've had my share of arguments on OAF and don't care to get in another.

[eric1978]

I think some beliefs are odd, but that's subjective, and they also may or may not be incorrect even though I happen to think they are. The one thing I do know is that I've had my share of arguments on OAF and don't care to get in another.

So don't...just change the channel like ness. I'm absolutely positive no one is changing any minds here, but who cares? This is purely for entertainment value. Having the same argument over and over again ain't really that much fun, but it beats playing referee. If you're bored enough to sit there and type about how pointless this is, you're bored enough participate in a more contentious manner. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back in the fight soldier.

I've got enough friends...when I hear someone spewing nonsense, I'm calling him on it, I don't care if it's constructive or not.

[Paola Cat]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[jdmidwest]

MDC employees Biologists that monitor stream populations of fish and other species. When they set a season, they are pretty sure it will not affect the population of the stream in a negative way. A few years back, MDC tried a age old method of fishing called Grabbing or Hogging. At the end of the first season, they determined that too many large, mature catfish were being taken with the method and the season was discontinued to preserve the population.

I have never gigged a fish and have never wanted to gig a fish. If there are poachers taking illegal fish, then it needs to be stopped, but gigging is a valid sporting method that provides entertainment and nourishment to a group of sportsmen. I don't bow hunt any longer and I know alot of deer are crippled by bow hunters each year. This may affect my gun season, should I get on a high horse and campaign against for my interests only? I don't snag paddlefish and am sure game fish are caught and harmed by that method also, should I campaign against that? NO.

Just because you don't understand something does not make it wrong or odd or incorrect, it just means you lack the ability to reason and learn about them before you cast judgement. I don't have any links or papers that show actual data on the matter, I just trust the MDC to do the research for me. If you want, google "gigging effects on missouri streams" and see what pops up or do a similar one on the MDC site. Or, if you are really bored, call a fisheries biologist and ask him to provide some statistical data on the subject.

[eric1978]

I just trust the MDC

I never would have expected to hear you say you "trust" a government agency, but okay, good for you. That said, MDC's gigging regulations are moot to the argument we're having, because we're not talking about the impact gigging has if practiced within the limits of the laws. I'm sure MDC's research on gigging "trash fish" led them to the conclusion that it has no impact on other species' populations, IF the giggers aren't breaking the game laws and poaching gamefish...but some clearly are, which throws a wrench into any statistics they might have.

Bowhunting may affect your gun season, game fish are caught and harmed while snagging paddlefish...should you campaign against that? MAYBE. If you think those activities are having a significant negative impact on your recreation of choice...MAYBE. Why not? My angling modus operandi has zero impact on other people's ability to enjoy our resources, save for the occassional C&R stress-related death, which is minute. You've heard of carbon footprints...well how about fish footprints? Mine is tiny. I've gotten as close to leaving no trace of my presence as you can without giving up angling altogether. Why should other people's behavior impact my enjoyment of our resources? You can call it selfishness, I call it fairness.

[Outside Bend]

Why should other people's behavior impact my enjoyment of our resources? You can call it selfishness, I call it fairness.

Why should your preference for trophy fish outweigh someone else's preference for keeping a few pan-sized fish to take home?

I guess my only beef is that giggers seem to be arbitrarily getting the third degree from you guys. I'd be willing to bet that, for every one gigger out there sticking smallies, there's at least one or two guys out there with conventional gear keeping more than a daily limit of smallies, taking fish out of season, destroying spawning sites/nests, or keeping more trophy fish than is allowed by regulations. I personally witnessed a guy cleaning five smallies on the Jacks Fork last summer, all better than 18", a flagrant violation of the Wildlife Code. Poaching is poaching, and to me it just seems ignorant to say the giggers need to be reigned in when so much poaching activity goes on amongst conventional anglers as well.

Identify poachers. Prosecute poachers. Rescind poacher's rights to hunt and fish in the state. But to me, there's no difference between someone poaching with a gig and someone poaching with a rapala. It'd be nice if giggers could better police their own ranks, if there was more enforcement during the gigging season, if fines and penalties were higher for those who illegally take fish with gigs. But those same things are all true of conventional anglers too. Reducing mortality of gigged bass may help grow more trophy fish, but so would reducing mortality of fish poached by the conventional guys. Blaming one side while ignoring the faults of your own, to me, just seems sort of childish.

Isn't their something in the bible about he who throws stones?

Couldn't help it.