Tipping A Guide

[flytyer57]

Everyone hopes for a tip, but to expect one is a little presumptuous IMO. Most guides already charge a substantial fee for their services, and if they want to be paid more than that, they should say so up front and adjust their original price accordingly. Besides, I have trouble tipping anyone who makes the amount of money in a half day of work what I make in a full day, especially when their "work" is what I consider heaven. It would be different if I were a millionaire, but I'm not.

I quote Steve Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs:

"I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I'll tip if someone really deserves a tip. If they really put forth the effort I'll give them something extra, but I mean this tipping automatically...it's for the birds. I mean as far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job."

I'll save the rest of the scene for another forum. And just for the record, I always tip waiters and waitresses because their salaries depend on the tips. If they were making $20 or $30 an hour, I wouldn't tip them either.

I totally agree.

[flytyer57]

So you would rather the guide up his price and more than likely not put forth the effort it took to earn the tip?

If I don't think the guide puts forth a serious effort, I will never use his service again and word of mouth srpeads pretty quick about lousy service.

[flytyer57]

It's customary to tip a guide. If you want to be THE guide out there explaining why your fee is higher, then feel free.

Trout guides typically work for an outfitter, who takes the bulk of the fee in return for the permits, insurance and marketing costs. It costs money to provide guide services. It's not all gas, flies and sandwiches.

As to your earlier comment about having trouble tipping a guy that makes more than you. Well, what the heck's that got do do with anything? Anyway, those guys are working a fraction of the year. Taking the daily fee and extrapolating it to weekly, monthly, or especially annual income doesn't really work.

And heaven? Come on, Eric. Untangling leaders, retrieving flies from trees, tying on flies, telling them where to cast, etc. is heaven?

If they can't take the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen.

[ness]

You talking to me?

[flyfishmaster]

Eric,

I got a complete kick out of your formula. I relly enjoyed it. I went back and thought about the times I hired guides in CO and one rate came out to 22%. Which is about what I actully tipped.

I know there are plenty of guides on this forum that would like to provide an input.

Tipping is a customers choice and if a tip is warranted the amount should be based on the quanity of service provided. In the food industry I have left a one cent tip 3 times. The reason was due to terrible service and below average food and the server was not cooperative in helping resolve the problem.

Tipping a guide should be no different. There was one time i went out with a guide on a late afternoon trip on the Blue River in CO. We did not catch a fish. I did not even get a bite, he received a bad tip becasue he was not willing to change the rig even after I made a few suggestions to mix it up a bit. After he was done, I fished for 1 more hour by myself and caught 7 fish using my own flies and a different setup. I tipped myself with a six pack of the local brew.

Tippig people in the service industry is always a debatable topic. Tip on your gut feeling not because you have to.

Later,

FFM

[KCRIVERRAT]

My one and only guided trip resulted in this. Beaver Lake last october. Did a half day trip, but had the first serious cold front for the season hit the night before. Temps the day we went in the low 40's. Low 70's the day before and low 60's the day after. Cold drizzle the day we fished. Just our luck. Here's what happened... our guide's boss had a group of return clients with him. Including him, six in the boat. We had four in the boat. Our guide was bullheaded... his boss with his crew kept marking fish and radioing our guide to come over. Our guide was a sawed off little you know what and wouldn't head over. Want'ed to prove to us he could find'em. This happened through out or entire half day trip. I did luck into a ten pounder. We were done... but that evening we looked at the pics posted by the guide service and saw that the group with the boss ended up limiting out with a 26 pounder caught. Well, we tipped him. I was not comfortable with doing so. Just didn't care for the guy. It was my decision to do so, but I wouldn't do it again. Don't think I'd use that service down on Beaver again either for the help he's got. Lesson learned I suppose...

[Njardar]

Charlie,

A little bird told me you guys fished the Thompson. So, how did it go?

It went well and I'm very glad that Gregg brought an extra wading staff. There was a lot of flow and it was a struggle to walk upstream I finally gave up out of exhaustion after 4.5 hrs...could barely walk. I did catch a nice sized brown on my new ECHO 4wt... now that was fun!

- Charlie

[ness]

It went well and I'm very glad that Gregg brought an extra wading staff. There was a lot of flow and it was a struggle to walk upstream I finally gave up out of exhaustion after 4.5 hrs...could barely walk. I did catch a nice sized brown on my new ECHO 4wt... now that was fun!

- Charlie

I'm not surprised he had an extra wading staff -- he's a real Boy Scout when it comes to being prepared. How did the other two do? Are they hooked now?

I'm packing my stuff tonight -- we'll be there (Estes) Saturday afternoon.

[Bighorn Flies]

Is there a general rule on how much to tip a guide for their services? This will be for a 1/2 day fly fishing for three prople in Colorado in case in makes a difference.

- Charlie

I'm new to the forum and from Montana so my opinion on the subject don't mean much, but here it goes. Most guides in Montana generally expect a tip ranging from 50 to 75 dollars or more for fishing trips.Some guides deserve it some don't. If your getting yelled at by your guide all the time to mend your line or that your doing everything wrong or if he tells you you're an idiot everytime you backcast into a tree right after he tells you to watch your backcast don't tip him (I've seen this and much worse). He's more concerned with how good he thinks he is and less concerned with whether or not you're having a good time. If you get a guide that will backrow 10 times over a hole so you can keep catching fish or will stand there and help you learn something or explain why you should do this or that a certain way and will give you a good to great memory to take home with you, you should tip him. Contrary to popular belief a fishing guide doesn't make a lot of money at least not here in Montana. Guides here do about 90 to 120 trips a year at about $225 a trip minus the shuttle which is $25 a trip sometimes 3 times a day if the water is running really fast. They also pay for a motel or rent of some kind which is about $50 a night plus the guides here tie or pay half price for the flies that their client will be using. I personally went through 300 dozen flies last year. If a guide didn't tie his own that's $3,600. Then you got gas and food plus the cost of insurance, the guide license and the Boat. Then you have to pay good ol' Uncle Sam taxes and then pay him again for a yearly parking pass. These are just a few expenses that we have to pay here in Montana. Personally I take people fishing just to see the smile on their face when they catch a fish. I don't care about tips, seeing clients enjoying themselves is tip enough.

Thanks for letting me ramble

Eric

[ness]

Hey Eric,

Welcome to the forum.

As to the value of your opinion -- I'd place it pretty high as you're a guide, and have some real facts and figures to add to the discussion.

$225 x 120 = $27,000 gross. Some folks get it in their head that $225 for a day is a lot of dough, maybe more than they make in a day, and stop thinking there. But I know it's not gonna make anybody rich, and it's hard work.

The way I look at whole thing is this: I work my tail off 49 weeks a year, and most of the other three weeks are spent doing non-fun stuff, so my time off is precious. Hiring a guide can be a great investment, even though at the end of the day I don't own anything new. The experience, the memories and the knowledge are what I get out of the deal, and I've never regretted it at all.

If a guide busts his hump for me and/or my kids I'm gonna show my appreciation for it with a tip. And there's a lot more than how many fish are caught in my equation.

As an example -- last summer we spent a couple days in Smoky Mountains on our way to SC. I hired a guide for my two boys and I for a day, hoping to make the most of the one (freakin) day we were going to get to fish there. It rained big the night before, and a good part of the day we fished. But he busted his hump driving us around the park trying to dodge the storms and find places that weren't blown out. He worked well with the boys, and taught me a thing or two also. During the long periods when we weren't fishing, he kept us entertained with stories about the locals, and the history of the area. I ended the day with 2 or 3 fish. Not only did I feel like I got my money's worth, but I felt he had done the very best he could have under crappy conditions. Ca-ching: he earned a nice tip. And we got a lot ourselves.