Kayaks?

[crawfly]

OR ...... you could buy a 22 lb. fishin machine and actually do more fishin!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqi9uYhr1lU

[eric1978]

Eric, why are you so dead set against yaks? You have a bad experience in one?

No. But I'm not fortunate enough to be able to own more than one craft at this time, so a canoe is better for me because it's not limited to day trips, and that's the advice I give to those looking for something versatile that can cover a variety of situations. Sounds like your kayak works well for you, but on Ozark streams, I think a canoe's advantages outweigh a yak's in most situations. I'm not dead-set against them, I just don't think they're as good.

Why don't you do overnights? They're a blast. They really give you that feeling like you're away from it all.

[flytyer57]

OR ...... you could buy a 22 lb. fishin machine and actually do more fishin!

Already got me a Creek Company ODC 18 pontoon.

[flytyer57]

Why don't you do overnights? They're a blast. They really give you that feeling like you're away from it all.

We had a discussion about this at the spring float just after that creek flooded here in Arkansas. Not too sure I'd want to be out there and have to find a way up a steep bluff when an 8' wall of water is coming at me at 50 mph.

I'm not against doing an overnighter. I'd love to do one. But the weather forecast better be clear for several days and no chance of rain upriver either.

[Al Agnew]

A few things...

If your only canoe experience is in aluminum rental canoes, you have no idea what a decent solo canoe can do.

Although there are few places in the Ozarks where you have a big canoe selection, there ARE some excellent solo canoes that track better than most kayaks. If you are going to be doing a lot of flatwater, a fiberglass solo touring canoe would be a good choice. Actually, fiberglass is not a bad canoe material for Ozark streams. Other than being noisier than the plastics for fishing, fiberglass is fairly durable, it's easier to repair than the plastics, and it can be formed into excellent fast tracking designs.

On the other hand, if paddling upstream is important to you, I'm actually not sure you need a really good tracking canoe or kayak. If all the riffles were straight and uniform, the faster and better tracking the craft was the easier it would be to paddle up them. But in typical Ozark riffles you are encountering swirling currents and course changes, and a really good tracking craft tends to be difficult to use to make the maneuvers you need to do.

The main thing you need to paddle upstream in a solo canoe is a double bladed paddle of the right size. It's almost impossible to paddle upstream with a single blade canoe paddle. It's just about as easy as most kayaks if you have a good double blade.

Eric is right. A solo canoe is a more versatile craft than any kayak. If you can only have one solo craft, it should probably be a canoe. It'll do everything a kayak will do, and it will carry more stuff, including more fishing rods. I routinely carry five rods and two containers with 5 big Plano boxes in one and 4 medium size Planos in the other, along with a good sized cooler that holds all my lunch stuff, not just the beverages. For overnight trips, I carry a four person Eureka tent (even if I'm going by myself...I've got the room, the weight doesn't bother me, and I like the spaciousness of a bigger tent), sleeping bag, two pads (so I like comfort), a tarp for a ground cover, a big cooler with all the food for three days in it and enough ice to last that long, cookstove and utensils, spare clothes in a dry bag, a book to read at night...Let's see any kayak carry that kind of gear.

[Stoneroller]

I have an Ocean Kayak Prowler Trident 13 Angler edition and my buddy has a Tarpon 120 Angler. Both have their bonuses, neither really has any drawbacks. Frankly any kayak or canoe you get could be made to work. check austinkayak.com for their deals, thats where we bought ours and I think we got great deals. Always check locally though to see if anyone can match their prices.

[eric1978]

I have an Ocean Kayak Prowler Trident 13 Angler edition and my buddy has a Tarpon 120 Angler. Both have their bonuses, neither really has any drawbacks.

I see one right away. What do you do with those rods when you're snaking through a tangled, fallen-over tree on a skinny river? You leave those rods there, they're gone, and if you lay them flat and strapped down, the tips are still exposed and susceptible to breakage. In a canoe you tuck them up under the bow and gunwales, and you slide through any obstacle like butter.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I lay my rods with the tips on the bow, haven't lost one yet.

[Flyflinger]

I have an Ocean Kayak Prowler Trident 13 Angler edition and my buddy has a Tarpon 120 Angler. Both have their bonuses, neither really has any drawbacks. Frankly any kayak or canoe you get could be made to work. check austinkayak.com for their deals, thats where we bought ours and I think we got great deals. Always check locally though to see if anyone can match their prices.

I have to say kayaks look very cool compared to a canoe. They look more comfortable also, and they have to paddle upsteam easier.

[Al Agnew]

Not to get too technical here, but the ability to paddle upstream is dependent entirely on the propulsion and the shape and size of the part of the hull that's below the waterline. In reality, the differences in wetted hull shape between kayaks and solo canoes are fairly insignificant, other than the pontoon shaped hybrids. So a canoe of roughly comparable size and designed purpose should go upstream as easily as a kayak, as long as the propulsion is equal. And by propulsion, I mean the kind of power and finesse you put into your paddle strokes.

Actually, if you carried the same amount of gear in a canoe that you did in a kayak, the canoe might be a little easier to paddle upstream, because canoes are designed for more weight to be carried. With less gear, the canoe should theoretically ride a little higher in the water than the comparable kayak, thus have less below waterline bulk to push upstream. The only disadvantage to the canoe is that you need a longer double bladed paddle than you do in a kayak because you're sitting up higher (or if you're one of those people who torture their knees by kneeling in the canoe, you have to reach out farther to get the paddle over the gunwales into efficient paddling positions). A longer paddle will be a little heavier and a bit more tiring, so your "propulsion system" will decline over the day.

I've done quite a bit of upstream paddling on Ozark streams in my solo canoes. I carry the single blade for fishing while going downstream, and a take-apart double blade for going upstream. I can paddle upstream in pretty fast current as long as it's deep enough to get the entire paddle blades into the water...or shallow enough to push off the bottom. I cannot easily paddle up through what you'd call really fast riffles, although the usual scenario is that I can find the slower currents and eddies along the sides and get most of the way up the riffle. The only place that usually stops my paddling is right at the top lip of the riffle where there is no place to avoid the current. But actually I usually find it easier to wade and walk the canoe up the fastest currents, which on Ozark streams are usually shallow enough that wading is practical. In fact, the double blade comes in handy even then, because I can wedge the blade at one end into the space between the end cap and the little carrying thwart right behind the end cap, with the rest of the paddle sticking out at about a 45 degree angle, perpendicular to the sides of the canoe. Then I just grasp the other end of the paddle and walk up along the edge where it's gravel, rock, or water weeds, with the canoe off the edge in water deep enough for it to float. I've often gone as far upstream as three or four miles in less than an hour, even while making some casts now and then from the canoe in the slower water as I'm going up.

As for the comfort of the seat, it just depends. For me, the seated position in a kayak with legs outstretched in front is not nearly as comfortable as the regular seated position in a canoe. I can see where that would be improved in an SOT when you stick your legs over the sides...but if you're trying to paddle upstream through a deep, slow pool, sticking your feet out is not conducive to efficient paddling! Great for going downstream though. Some kayak seats with backs are comfortable on your back and butt, however, you can customize your own seating system in a canoe and make it comfortable as well. What I've found to be the absolute most comfortable for me is a hard wooden seat back that's solid (Old Town makes one for bench type seats, or you may be able to find others) that I drape a life jacket over for a bit of padding, combined with a gel-filled seat cushion...and I've also found a small Thermorest type self-inflating seat pad to be very comfortable if you do some experimentation on the right amount of air in it.