Kayaks?

[Al Agnew]

I'm with Wayne on the hybrids. The ONLY real advantage I can see with them is the initial stability. In all other respects they are inferior to a good solo canoe. People really tout their comfortable seat, but like somebody else said, how would you rather sit, on the floor with your legs out in front, or in a chair? With a little experimentation to find the most comfortable seat back and seat cushioning, I think you'll be more comfortable in a canoe.

While I agree that there is no one perfect paddle craft, in my opinion, the canoe is the most versatile, as I said before. I don't think this is personal preference, I think it's objective fact. The canoe holds more gear, holds it more readily to hand, is more comfortable to sit in, is lighter in weight, than just about any kayak or hybrid. It is equal to most kayaks in "paddle-ability" and handling. Sitting up higher gives you better visibility, though it also makes you slightly more visible to the fish. Kayaks are better in the wind, and they are easier for the novice paddler to learn to paddle.

So, in the canoe you can fish as well or better than in a kayak, fish all the kinds of waters that you can find in the Ozarks, and carry enough stuff to make overnight trips easy. In a kayak you can fish lakes a little better, especially on windy days, but you can't carry as much stuff and you have to really pare your gear down for overnight trips. So the canoe is the better do-it-all craft.

But if you just like paddling a kayak, don't mind the limitations on gear, fish more flatwater than moving water, you will prefer the kayak. That's fine. But in my canoe I can do everything you can in a kayak, and do some of it better and only one thing, fishing windy lakes, worse.

[RSBreth]

One of the recent trips I fished Beaver Lake out of my solo, I had some kayak company for a while. They didn't get blown around by the wind as much as I did, but when a wake from a bigger boat came through the cove, they got wet, and I simply bobbed up and down on the waves. So that's another wrinkle.

[Flyflinger]

I am learning alot from this post I started. In fact I didn't even know there are so many diffent canoes/kayaks out there. I must say this is going to take some time to make the right choice for me. A few points I need to consider:

1. I rarely if ever do overnight trips.

2. I pull out and wade alot, hardly ever fish stricly from the canoe while its moving.

3. I will be alone 90% of the time, I fish durring the week when everyone is working.

4. I flyfish 90% of the time.

hmmmm....

[Wayne SW/MO]

Except for the flyfishing, that describes my fishing. Overall I would think a solo in the 40# range would probably be best. The 12'Tarpon is fine also, up until you have to load and unload on a steep bank or portage.

For what its worth, I've never paddled a Pack, but I seriously considered one until I got a lot of negative feedback on the stability from those who had owned them.

[RSBreth]

Except for the flyfishing, that describes my fishing. Overall I would think a solo in the 40# range would probably be best. The 12'Tarpon is fine also, up until you have to load and unload on a steep bank or portage.

For what its worth, I've never paddled a Pack, but I seriously considered one until I got a lot of negative feedback on the stability from those who had owned them.

Yeah, I read that too, but after an hour of paddling one I got into it's blend of maneuverability. It feels "tippy" but it has plenty of secondary stability (the thing that keeps you from flipping).

I can lean it to one side or the other while snaking through timber, and kind of lean into turns.

As everyone knows, (and is bored to tears from me constantly saying it) I just love that little boat!

I really don't understand why some folks can't get the hang of the Pack, I'm 6' and 200 lbs of walking clumsiness, and I've never tipped it over. I never moved the seat, or lowered it, nothing. Bone stock.

Makes me wonder if I just sit more still or don't panic and overcorrect, or if everyone else is even MORE clumsy than me. I'd imagine the Discovery 119 would feel more stable, being 10 pounds heavier and with a lower seat.

Good article about hull design at Paddling.net HERE

[eric1978]

I'd imagine the Discovery 119 would feel more stable, being 10 pounds heavier and with a lower seat.

My 119 felt pretty squirrelly at first, too, but I had raised the seat considerably right off the bat. I got used to it very quickly, though, and now I'm perfectly comfortable in most situations. I'm in the process of building a new seat, and it's going to be slightly lower than before, but not as low as the factory seat, which makes you feel like you might as well be in a kayak it sits so low. I have to say that I'm not wild about the factory molded plastic seat even though I tried to make it work at first. I'm putting a sitbacker in.

I don't know if the extra weight would make it feel more stable or not. If anything I would think it would be a detriment to secondary stability.

[Al Agnew]

And, as I've said before since the Pack was the first solo I ever owned so I have a lot of experience in it, if you move the seat forward a few inches, the Pack gains a LOT of initial stability. I moved the seat forward until the front edge of the seat was just about in the exact center of the canoe, and after that I found the Pack to be a very stable canoe for its size. It also helped some in paddling it straight ahead, with very little reduction in maneuverability. I don't know why so many Royalex solos come from the factory with the seat too far back. On ANY solo canoe, the seat should be placed so that the front edge is very near the center of the canoe.

The Pack is a fun little canoe. The biggest reason I switched to a Vagabond is that the much longer Vagabond will back-ferry well, and the ferry is the most useful technique you'll ever find for getting through Ozark stream riffles. Any time you have a curving riffle with obstructions such as overhanging limbs or logs on the outside of the bend--which is common on Ozark streams--the current always wants to push you into those obstructions, because the current is always faster on the outside due to simple centrifugal force. Most casual paddlers just try to turn the craft away from the outside obstructions and paddle like heck. Which, in fast riffles, won't cut it. The current is pushing you into the logs faster than you can get the canoe turned away and past them, and the current is also "helping" turn the craft sideways, so you end up not only hitting the obstruction but hitting it sideways, which is an almost sure recipe for getting wet and can be dangerous in strong, deeper current. So instead, you point the front end of the canoe TOWARD the obstructions and you backpaddle. The current, in that case, actually helps push the canoe away from the obstruction, and if by some chance you don't do it well enough, the point of the craft hits the obstruction, which is a lot less dangerous than hitting it sideways.

The problem with short canoes like the Pack is that they don't hold the angle you want when you are ferrying...they want to turn farther with each paddle stroke. With a double bladed paddle this isn't too much of a problem, which is why many whitewater kayaks are short. But with a single blade, you have to keep switching sides to keep the canoe at the right angle, and you don't want to be wasting time switching sides in heavy water.

And that's really the biggest reason I switched to the Vagabond, although it also has benefits of being faster, holding a little more, and it's easier to stow extra rods.

[MaxDrown]

Al, exactly which solo canoe do you have? Do you have a link? (What you have sounds exactly like what I'd like to have)

[eric1978]

Al, exactly which solo canoe do you have? Do you have a link? (What you have sounds exactly like what I'd like to have)

http://www.wenonah.c...tail.php?IID=34

[Greg]

I think for versatility the solo canoe is definitely a better all around fishing craft. But.............even a cheap kayak is pretty good too. Last year I rented a cheap kayak of the sit in variety for the north fork of the white. It was really a bit small for me. But it performed amazingly well. You can buy a kayak like that for less than 300 bucks.

Greg