Lead Ban On All Fishing Tackle

[eric1978]

As I said before, if I believed, or someone was able to prove to me that lead was bad for the lakes, then I would completely support a complete ban.

If you tell me who you would listen to, I'll find the information for you. Problem is, I don't think you would believe anyone, because you don't want to.

[Stockton Lake Guide Service]

I'm more inclined to listen to scientists than you, since they know what they're talking about and you don't. They seem to think it is harmful to the environment, whether it was "invented" by "God" or not.

http://www.lead.org..../lanv1n2-8.html

Lead shot and lead weight can severely affect individual organisms and threaten ecosys­tems (WHO 1989). After three to ten days of waterfowl ingesting lead shot, the poison will reach the bloodstream and be carried to major organs, like the heart, liver and kidneys. By the 17th to 21st day the bird falls into a coma and dies. Following the ingestion of lead shot, lead toxicosis has been observed in Magpie geese, Black swans, several species of duck (including Black duck and Musk duck) and Hardhead species (OECD 1993).Organic lead is much more readily taken up by birds and fish (WHO 1989). Aquatic organisms take up inorganic lead through a transfer of lead from water and sediments; this is a relatively slow process. Organic lead is rapidly taken up by aquatic organisms from water and sediment. Aquatic animals are affected by lead at water concentrations lower than previously thought safe for wildlife. These concentrations occur often, but the impact of atmospheric lead on specific sites with high aquatic lead levels is not clear (US EPA 1986).

Lead moves into and throughout ecosystems. Atmospheric lead is deposited in vegetation, ground and water surfaces. The chemical and physical properties of lead and the biogeochemical processes within ecosystems will influence the movement of lead through ecosystems. The metal can affect all components of the environment and can move through the ecosystem until it reaches an equilibrium. Lead accumulates in the environment, but in certain chemical environ­ments it will be transformed in such a way as to increase its solubility (e.g., the formations of lead sulfate in soils), its bioavailability or its toxicity. The effects of lead at the ecosystem level are usually seen as a form of stress (US EPA 1986).

In general, there are three known ways in which lead can adversely affect ecosystems. Populations of micro-organisms may be wiped out at soil lead concentrations of 1,000 parts per million (ppm) or more, slowing the rate of decomposition of matter. Populations of plants, micro-organisms and inverte­brates may be affected by lead concentrations of 500 to 1,000 ppm, allowing more lead-tolerant populations of the same or different species to take their place. This will change the type of ecosystem present. At all am­bient atmospheric concentrations of lead, the addition of lead to vegetation and animal surfaces can prevent the normal bio­chemical process that purifies and repurifies the calcium pool in grazing animals and decomposer organisms (UNEP 1991).

Tungsten. If you know where I can find some tungsten spinnerbait heads, let me know.

In the same breath you say that you don't dump oil (which we take out of the earth and make stuff with it), but lead is okay (because we just take it out of the earth and make stuff with it).

The Bible would also have you believe the earth is 6,000 years old. Pretty sure that isn't right. I'd be careful making scientific arguments based on a document that is so thoroughly disproved.

I agree with you...our kids are going to face a lot of problems because of how we currently treat the planet, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore less looming problems...we should address them all and look into fixing them. Look, I don't think lead is a HUGE environmental problem, but the FACTS are that it DOES have a negative impact...that's a FACT. You can't deny fact simply because it isn't convenient for you, even though I know that's a common theme in our culture.

first of all, oil is proven to contaminate water. If I were to dump oil into a lake it could kill fish. You say that I say "in the same breath", but there is a period there and I simply made the statement that using the lead in the lake is not harmful to the fishing, and I have seen no studies to suggest otherwise. I don't have my exact words in front of me, but you seem to be trying to argue that both are the same type of pollutant. I have to disagree with you. Oil is very harmful to water when dumped into it, a lead weight dropped into water does not seem to have any ill effects.

Your argument as the age of earth is off topic and I don't see where it has anything to do with a lead ban. I can argue that one thru email if you wish to continue with this discussion.

As far as your argument as to where to buy tungsten spinnerbaits. I can get you all that you want. It's not a hard thing to find, you just need to take the time to google tungsten spinnerbaits when you are not trying to save the world LOL. That was just a joke, but you can buy non lead fishing equipment, but you have just chosen to use lead.

And just because someone is a scientist doesn't make them know the truth about everything. Check it out, they are wrong all the time and will continue to be wrong on lots of things that we don't have enough info about.

[Amish Bill]

Well I'm already the selfish,gas guzzler( see previous post )Which one of you guys want to be the evil lead guy ? Don't fight over the title guys we still need nominees for wood burner, fish keeper, Taney shuffler, aerosal sprayer,I guess that could fall under ozone killer! Some hateful irresponsible a#@*?^: that uses electricity. Anyway you get the idea, Feel free to add your nominations. Now about the lead...YEA LEAD

[Stockton Lake Guide Service]

If you tell me who you would listen to, I'll find the information for you. Problem is, I don't think you would believe anyone, because you don't want to.

You say that but I listen to all kinds of people, both scientists and others that seem to know what they are talking about. I just don't believe everything that they say if they can't back it up. If lead was so bad, then how is the fishing so good. Why are the fish not dead or poisoned.

You are the one having problems listening. You say you would never use lead if there was an alternative. Fact is there is and you have not taken them time to research it and use it. You still use lead, and then try to put the rest of us down for doing the same.

As far as who I would listen to, send me the info that can be proven that lead weights are causing a problem in the lakes. Something that can be proven, not from some environmentalist nut job.

The problem with all of these arguments are that people don't look at both sides. The comment earlier in this thread about the number of ducks that die because of being wounded by steel shot, instead of killed with lead shot. Has anyone ever did a study about whether the steel shot saved the ones that would have died from lead, but killed other because of the worse shot pattern. Who knows, but I do look at both sides of the argument and then try to make an educated decision. I've done the same here and I have been unable to convince myself that lead fishing products are destroying the environment, and your arguments have not been able to prove that either. Like you said, facts are facts and you can't change them, but you can distort them so that the truth is not really the truth. Look at both sides of this before jumping to conclusions, and don't forget to buy a few of those tungsten spinnerbaits.

This spinnerbait has it all! The Terminator Custom Tungsten Series of spinnerbaits are billed by Terminator as "Tungsten meets Titanium!" These blades, designed by some of the top pros fishing today, feature a compact head made from tungsten, a material that is twice as dense as lead. The wire arm is made from titanium to resist bending and retain its shape fish after fish so you don't have to keep tuning your spinnerbait. These Terminator baits feature ball bearing swivels, top quality blades, great colors and hard, glossy finishes that resist chipping. The skirts are fine cut silicon that flare out nicely from the head of the bait and pulsate through the water. These are very compact spinnerbaits, that measure only 3" from the tie point to the hook bend and 2 1/4" from head to swivel. They cast well in the wind and will come through brush and other obstructions as well as any other spinnerbait. These baits will catch any bass anywhere in the country and will excel in smallmouth and spotted bass water.

[luv2fish]

Mr. Bennett, I really am disappointed in some of your remarks. I guess you refuse to take liberals fishing or accept their money. And just what is your definition of a liberal anyway. As far as "government geniuses" would that include the ones that built the lake that you make your living on? As far as lead fishing lures I doubt that they will be declared illegal and even if they were 1. The law would be practically unenforcable and 2. most people around here would ignore the law like they do so many other fish and game laws. Sorry you want to limit your services to only those that you agree with politically and religiously, but thats the beauty of being in buisness for yourself.

[Stockton Lake Guide Service]

Mr. Bennett, I really am disappointed in some of your remarks. I guess you refuse to take liberals fishing or accept their money. And just what is your definition of a liberal anyway. As far as "government geniuses" would that include the ones that built the lake that you make your living on? As far as lead fishing lures I doubt that they will be declared illegal and even if they were 1. The law would be practically unenforcable and 2. most people around here would ignore the law like they do so many other fish and game laws. Sorry you want to limit your services to only those that you agree with politically and religiously, but thats the beauty of being in buisness for yourself.

I think you need to read all of what I wrote. I specifically gave praise to the mdc, and I did leave out the corps of engineers, but not intentionally. They have done a wonderful job on all of the lakes and continue to do so. I'm not sure what statement you are referring to, but please take the time to read my comments completely because if I read yours correctly, you missed quite a bit of what I said.

As far as taking liberals fishing, I have no problem taking anyone fishing but I really don't do this job for the money. I enjoy the lake, fishing, and meeting new people. I don't look down on someone because they don't agree with me. If eric wanted to go fishing sometime, I would love to go out with him, as with you. I give information out for free all the time, and have never asked for anyones beliefs before I do so.

Please finish reading all of my posts and let me know if it clarifies anything. If not, please except my apologies for offending you, that was not my goal at all.

[eric1978]

As far as who I would listen to, send me the info that can be proven that lead weights are causing a problem in the lakes. Something that can be proven, not from some environmentalist nut job.

This is the only part I'll respond to, and then I'm dropping out of this pointless merry-go-round.

I am so tired of hearing the slams on environmentalists. If your favorite thing in the world is shooting darts or sitting in an office all day or playing X-Box, I could see why you might think they're a little nutty. But environmentalists fight to keep pristine nature intact (what's left of it), and as an angler and outdoor enthusiast, I support the VAST majority of the work they do. I hate to drag politics into it, but it's impossible to avoid to make this point...I think a lot of guys that bad-mouth environmentalists are just blindly towing the Republican Party line, and since the R's are in the pocket of giant corporations that save money when they pollute (the D's are in a different set of pockets), constituents are faced with the decision to break with their party or just nod their head in agreement and start chanting the talking points...even if they don't really believe it or know that it's flat out wrong. The Republican mantra is "money before anything else," and that includes the environment. So if you call yourself a Republican for one reason or two or three, next thing you know you are supporting their entire philosophy and agenda which unfortunately is terrible for our planet. (I know I'm in the minority among the demographic on this forum, so go ahead, fire away.) You say you look at both sides and make your own decisions, but I don't see any reason why sportsmen and people who love interacting with nature wouldn't be in favor of doing everything they can to "conserve" the health of the Earth.

Thanks for the tip on the tungsten spinnerbaits, though. I honestly didn't know they existed. I will look into them.

And an edit to address the previous poster...I find nothing of what you said offensive, Bob, and I would gladly hire you as a guide if I ever needed one on Stockton. We may not agree on many issues, but people get along quite differently when they're fishing. If I only hung out with people who I agreed with on everything, I wouldn't have anyone to hang out with.

[Stockton Lake Guide Service]

This is the only part I'll respond to, and then I'm dropping out of this pointless merry-go-round.

I am so tired of hearing the slams on environmentalists. If your favorite thing in the world is shooting darts or sitting in an office all day or playing X-Box, I could see why you might think they're a little nutty. But environmentalists fight to keep pristine nature intact (what's left of it), and as an angler and outdoor enthusiast, I support the VAST majority of the work they do. I hate to drag politics into it, but it's impossible to avoid to make this point...I think a lot of guys that bad-mouth environmentalists are just blindly towing the Republican Party line, and since the R's are in the pocket of giant corporations that save money when they pollute (the D's are in a different set of pockets), constituents are faced with the decision to break with their party or just nod their head in agreement and start chanting the talking points...even if they don't really believe it or know that it's flat out wrong. The Republican mantra is "money before anything else," and that includes the environment. So if you call yourself a Republican for one reason or two or three, next thing you know you are supporting their entire philosophy and agenda which unfortunately is terrible for our planet. (I know I'm in the minority among the demographic on this forum, so go ahead, fire away.) You say you look at both sides and make your own decisions, but I don't see any reason why sportsmen and people who love interacting with nature wouldn't be in favor of doing everything they can to "conserve" the health of the Earth.

Thanks for the tip on the tungsten spinnerbaits, though. I honestly didn't know they existed. I will look into them.

And an edit to address the previous poster...I find nothing of what you said offensive, Bob, and I would gladly hire you as a guide if I ever needed one on Stockton. We may not agree on many issues, but people get along quite differently when they're fishing. If I only hung out with people who I agreed with on everything, I wouldn't have anyone to hang out with.

I would be fishing alone too, so i try not to take this all personally. I dont want to be taken out of context, so I do want to clarify that the environmentalist wackjobs I'm talking about are the ones that always have to have something that is bad for something. Not the ones that are sincere and have figured out that we can't dump nuclear waste in our drinking waters. Every post I have read on this thread seems to be for keeping the environment clean and making it better for our kids, but we are human and we do have to live here. These carbon footprints that I'm leaving can't always be helped. It just seems very hypocritical for people to scream about saving the environment and then drive their suv across the country on vacation. If they were really sincere, they wouldn't be driving around like that. People jump on a plane and fly across the country to protest against pollution. Keep yourself at home and maybe they will cancel the flight, now that will save some pollution.

I am a conservative, not a republican or democrat. In fact I'm not even sure if I would vote for either one of them anymore. They all seem to be in for themselves, not for us or the country, so I will not argue any politics on here either.

I'm glad you put this in, because I looked back thru and missed the part that I didn't like the people that made the lake etc.

Next time your up this way, give me a call. I might not agree with your arguments, but would like to take a liberal on a free fishing trip so nobody can call me a hypocrite! I might have to find a conservative friend to take with me so I have some back up though!

[eric1978]

They all seem to be in for themselves

No argument there, Bob.

A free guided trip? Man, you might get me to pull the lever for the wrong guy talking like that!

[luv2fish]

Mr. Bennett, I read all of your comments before I responded. I just get tired of hearing terms like enviromental wackos and gorvernment geniuses. Maybe your reference was just to a narrow group and not a broad generalization, but terms like that only fuel the fire of some who would stereotype all who work for the government as incompetent and all who care about the enviroment as "tree huggers". I appreciate your information and am sure your not disrespectful to your customers. I just get tired of the anti- government, anti- enviromentalist attitudes that I run into around here. In the meantime I will continue to use my lead heads to catch fish until I'm told I cannot or am provided with a better alternative.