My Trout Management Wish List

[ozark trout fisher]

Then keep repeating the last sentence of my post until you do.

Whatever. I'm not particularly interested in debating whether or not I'm a good fisherman. Maybe I am and maybe I'm not, but that's not really at issue. I can tell you that I have spent a lot of time fishing put and take waters a long time after stocking after the catch and keep guys have taken their fish already, and it's just not anything close to what you'd find on a Blue Ribbon stream with similar habitat. I'm not saying that there aren't fish to be caught, I'm just saying it could be a lot better.

That some of these smaller spring-fed streams that are currently managed White Ribbon waters with unstable trout populations could support good populations of resident trout can't really be disputed. The Blue Ribbon stretch of the Little Piney used to be put and take, but the state stopped stocking that stretch and put in Blue Ribbon regs, and sure enough, within just a couple years, there was a very viable wild trout population. What was once a stream that suffered immensely from large takes of fish is now a nice stable, little fishery. Every one I've talked to is much more happy with it's current management than its past put and take days.It's a perfect example of what we can do if we manage these streams better. To make the catch and keep folks happy, the MDC stocked a stretch further downstream. Still appeasement, yes, but the end result was much less damaging. This water isn't capable of supporting trout year-round, but it does give the bait fisherman a place to fish fall-spring. It seems like a perfectly fair arrangement.

So what do you really want? Do you want these little creeks to undergo a constant cycle of stocking and population depletion, or do you want them to have quality populations of wild or resident trout? The choice seems pretty clear to me, and we aren't going to achieve it through put and take management.

[Chief Grey Bear]

What you are saying you can't can't catch fish in a put and take environment and you are now thowing a hissy fit and want all waters managed so you can catch your fish. Well, it ain't all about you. There are other users of the resource and you are just goning to have to learn to share.

[ozark trout fisher]

What you are saying you can't can't catch fish in a put and take environment and you are now thowing a hissy fit and want all waters managed so you can catch your fish. Well, it ain't all about you. There are other users of the resource and you are just goning to have to learn to share.

Chief, you're simply not being intellectually honest. I don't mean to be harsh, but you're reducing my point to something that I just didn't say. I did mention that I prefer Blue Ribbon waters to White Ribbon waters , but I never said that I couldn't catch fish on White Ribbon streams. But in any case, that is peripheral to my argument. I'm a lot more worried about the health of the fishery whether or not I'm catching fish. And put and take is simply not a viable method of managing a healthy fish population.

I am not saying that I want waters to be managed differently so I can catch my fish, I'm saying that I don't like seeing quality water managed in a way that allows the population to be constantly depleted. I think it is better if our streams have a steady, healthy trout population instead of a cycle of stocking and population depletion.

[Outside Bend]

I'm a lot more worried about the health of the fishery whether or not I'm catching fish. And put and take is simply not a viable method of managing a healthy fish population.

But White Ribbon streams probably wouldn't have viable trout populations without stocking, so isn't that a moot point? Would no fish really be preferable to stocked fish?

[troutfiend1985]

What you are saying you can't can't catch fish in a put and take environment and you are now thowing a hissy fit and want all waters managed so you can catch your fish. Well, it ain't all about you. There are other users of the resource and you are just goning to have to learn to share.

Chief, I have no clue what or why your posting this. Look, a small C&R section, or an idea of a new management area does not mean someone is a bad fisherman. It's not all about me or OTF or any specific individual, it is about an idea of conserving the resources we put out there. Why don't we reserve 25% of the land as C&R zones on White Ribbon areas and let the other 75% stay as "put and take." There are other users of this resource indeed, and I guess we all need to learn how to share. As far as I know, C&R is the best way to share a resource.

But White Ribbon streams probably wouldn't have viable trout populations without stocking, so isn't that a moot point? Would no fish really be preferable to stocked fish?

I'm not sure that all white ribbon areas would qualify under that. And again I don't think anyone here wants stocking to absolutley stop, I want to keep the stocking as it is but add a small C&R section.

I know of at least one white ribbon stream that was listed as a wild stream in Chuck Tryon's first book. I also know of a few people who have caught fingelings in this creek and another creek. Maybe we would find that the main thing holding some wild reproduction back is not the stream itself, but the fact that trout don't last long enough to spawn. Just my opinion though.

[ozark trout fisher]

But White Ribbon streams probably wouldn't have viable trout populations without stocking, so isn't that a moot point? Would no fish really be preferable to stocked fish?

I don't entirely agree with your statement that White Ribbon streams couldn't sustain trout populations without stocking. Did you read the example I gave about Little Piney? It really is proof positive that some put and take streams could be transformed into wild trout fisheries.

But you're right that not all White Ribbon streams could support that. Those streams should be placed in three categories in my opinion.

1.Streams that could support a quality "resident" trout population, meaning that they would be stocked once or twice a year instead of 10 or 12, but the daily limit would be reduced to 2 with a 15" minimum-Red Ribbon management, except that the fish stocked would be more likely to be rainbows than browns.

2. White Ribbon streams that have certain areas that could support a good resident fishery-in those case, use Troutfiend's idea and put in a short C&R stretch, and manage the rest of it as it is now.

3 White Ribbon fisheries with little or no carry-over capacity. For example Stone Mill Spring Branch or the White Ribbon stretch of the Little Piney. Continue to manage those as they are presently being managed.

So I'm not entirely in favor of eliminating White Ribbon areas. I would just like to see them changed.

And can anyone really argue with troutfiend when he says that the best way to "share the resource" is to practice C&R?

[Chief Grey Bear]

Chief, you're simply not being intellectually honest. I don't mean to be harsh, but you're reducing my point to something that I just didn't say. I did mention that I prefer Blue Ribbon waters to White Ribbon waters ,

Please, be has harsh and you want. It brings out your character. You did mention blue over white cause you could catch more fish correct???? They are mangaged differenlty to achieve differnt results. And they have accomplished the desired results for both.

[ozark trout fisher]

Please, be has harsh and you want. It brings out your character. You did mention blue over white cause you could catch more fish correct???? They are mangaged differenlty to achieve differnt results. And they have accomplished the desired results for both.

I've made my point as well as I can make it, and I don't see the thread going anywhere particularly good from here on. I have no interest in attacking your character I'm sure your a nice enough guy. It's just that I'm just trying to make a point about trout management and you're trying to make the discussion revolve around my fishing skills or lack there of. Forgive me if I got a little annoyed.

[Chief Grey Bear]

As well I have made my point that White Ribbon is not managed for C&R. It is managed primarily for those that desire to keep the trout they may happen to catch. I don't know why that is problem when another load of trout will be delivered in a few weeks.

There is not one gallon of water in this state that has trout that were not stocked by some entity whether government or private at some point in time in history. Now I have nothing against trout fishing. I love the fact that I can find wild populations of self sustaining trout in remote waters. And I am all about their protection. So much so that I will not annouce the location when I discover them. But I would take someone like yourself to a area of these rare populations only because I know you are a good steward of the wild, self sutaining populations in this state.

But when it comes to stocked trout, I don't get too shook up. Why? More are coming. I just don't see the reason to get all bent out of shape. I guess when I look at your argument, I see you complaining that you can't catch trout in the white ribbon section and you want to change is so you can. And that just ain't right in my mind. So we differ. No big deal. Nothing personal. We just don't agree and we say our peace. Or is it piece.

[Outside Bend]

I don't entirely agree with your statement that White Ribbon streams couldn't sustain trout populations without stocking. Did you read the example I gave about Little Piney? It really is proof positive that some put and take streams could be transformed into wild trout fisheries.

But you're right that not all White Ribbon streams could support that. Those streams should be placed in three categories in my opinion.

1.Streams that could support a quality "resident" trout population, meaning that they would be stocked once or twice a year instead of 10 or 12, but the daily limit would be reduced to 2 with a 15" minimum-Red Ribbon management, except that the fish stocked would be more likely to be rainbows than browns.

2. White Ribbon streams that have certain areas that could support a good resident fishery-in those case, use Troutfiend's idea and put in a short C&R stretch, and manage the rest of it as it is now.

3 White Ribbon fisheries with little or no carry-over capacity. For example Stone Mill Spring Branch or the White Ribbon stretch of the Little Piney. Continue to manage those as they are presently being managed.

So I'm not entirely in favor of eliminating White Ribbon areas. I would just like to see them changed.

And that, to me, seems like a pretty reasonable scenario. That's something I could get behind.

And can anyone really argue with troutfiend when he says that the best way to "share the resource" is to practice C&R?

I think the folks who want to keep fish would tend to disagree...