Mountain Lion?

[Al Agnew]

Agree with you completely, Tim. One of my wife's brothers kills every coyote and bobcat he sees on his farm, because he believes they eat too many rabbits. He used to have phenomenal rabbit hunting on his farm, because it was recovering from many years of overgrazing but had been fallow for a few years, and had a lot of cedar-covered hillsides. He went in and "hinged" all the cedars (cut most of the way through them so that they were lying over on their sides but stayed alive for a few years). It made perfect rabbit habitat, and there were rabbits everywhere. Definitely attracted a lot of predators, but the rabbit hunting remained excellent for quite a while. But then it started declining. He was seeing all those predators, and blamed them for it. But what he didn't look at was that those cedars had finally died and rotted down, the hillsides were getting covered with second growth timber instead of weeds and hinged cedars, so there was less food and less cover for the rabbits.

Manage land to optimize food and cover for the animals you want to hunt, and the predator "problem" will take care of itself.

Live out in Montana part of the year as we are starting to do, and you get the whole predator controversy first hand. There's no doubt that the wolves in and around Yellowstone have had an effect on the elk herd, but to hear the weekend warrior elk hunters tell it, wolves have eaten every elk in sight. Not really. The elk herd has been culled to about where it SHOULD be given the amount of food and habitat. The "wolf-less" elk herd was unnaturally abundant and made hunting easy when they were forced to concentrate in places where they could find enough food, but they were also ripe for diseases when concentrated like that. Now, they don't have to concentrate near agricultural fields where they were really easy to hunt, and the nimrods are finding they might have to work to kill an elk instead of driving around and shooting them from pickups.

Gotta admit, though, that I'm a little uneasy about grizzlies. Since they are completely protected but are more abundant than they once were, they have little fear of people and grizzly/human conflicts are getting more common all the time.

[Tim Smith]

Live out in Montana part of the year as we are starting to do, and you get the whole predator controversy first hand. There's no doubt that the wolves in and around Yellowstone have had an effect on the elk herd, but to hear the weekend warrior elk hunters tell it, wolves have eaten every elk in sight. Not really. The elk herd has been culled to about where it SHOULD be given the amount of food and habitat. The "wolf-less" elk herd was unnaturally abundant and made hunting easy when they were forced to concentrate in places where they could find enough food, but they were also ripe for diseases when concentrated like that. Now, they don't have to concentrate near agricultural fields where they were really easy to hunt, and the nimrods are finding they might have to work to kill an elk instead of driving around and shooting them from pickups.

I remember when PETA went after the Jackson Hole elk hunt one winter. The protesters came out and did their harrassment shtick for the TV crews (national crews in that instance) and the hunters were understandably upset. But when they interviewed the hunters for their counterpoint, the elk were packed into the field right behind them. All the talk about tradition and sportsmanship came off a little hollow when the elk were so standing close and docile they might as well have been cattle.

There are still plenty of elk around Yellowstone despite the wolves. I drove into Yellowstone January of last year from the Montana side and saw them in the dozens. Someone had a bull elk on a trailer field dressed and draped over both ends it was so huge.

Gizzlies scare me too. Friends and field crews I know in Alaska are generally armed and I don't blame them a bit.

[Justin Spencer]

Well put Tim and Al. Here along the river we have tons of beavers, otters, muskrats, coons, coyotes, foxes, bobcats, etc. I enjoy trapping and have trapped quite a few of these. As for seeing them out and about it is a rare occurance for any of these animals which have large established populations. For a rare animal such as a puma or bear that is reclusive living in these wooded hills and treacherous ravines if they don't want to be seen they won't be. They know the places humans frequent and avoid these areas. Bear sightings still get people excited and we know they are raising cubs right here in Ozark county yet still seldom seen. I think MDC is just trying to keep their phone from ringing from concerned citizens who would probably freak out if they thought mountain lions were raising young in their neighborhood. Much like sharks, I think many people see mountain lions as nothing but a killing machine that will stalk and kill you if you give them a chance. As someone who worked for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks I was constantly amazed at the idiotic phone calls we recieved and can only imagine the time that would be wasted on the phone if people thought that we had lions roaming all over the state. I wish the MDC would admit there is a possibility of a breeding population, but understand that until they have concrete proof of this it keeps them from dealing with just another headache from a generally uninformed public.

[Gary Lange]

I haven't seen a Mountain Lion yet but I have seen a Bobcat and felt very privileged to see and photograph that especially since it was about 11:30am.

[Tim Smith]

I haven't seen a Mountain Lion yet but I have seen a Bobcat and felt very privileged to see and photograph that especially since it was about 11:30am.

I remember that photo from the ISA boards, Gary. That's an awesome shot.

I managed to get a picture of one in the Badlands in South Dakota last year but yours is far better.

[Gary Lange]

I can only dream of shot like that of a Mountain Lion. I was in Glacier National Park Backpacking a good number of years ago and I am sure they were around but never saw them. I also went Mountain Biking in Winter Park Colorado one year and they had signs up a little hiking trip with the camera that they had Mountain Lions in the area and to watch your back and go with a group. Mountain Lions will hunt you just like anything else they would hunt. Guy is a tree stand had one cross under him several times as figured that it could smell him but couldn't pick up the trail. He was deer hunting with a bow. They will attempt to take food from a bear so eating you is nothing.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I wish the MDC would admit there is a possibility of a breeding population, but understand that until they have concrete proof of this it keeps them from dealing with just another headache from a generally uninformed public.

Hard to breed when you're dead.

[Al Agnew]

Gary, agreed they have the capability of eating you, but the number of people killed by wild mountain lions in North America is exceedingly small. It isn't the kind of thing I'd be the least bit worried about. There are lots of reports of mountain lions "stalking" people, and I think that their curiosity gets the better of them sometimes and they follow hikers, but actually attacking them is something else again. When I'm hiking out West where I know there are lions, I never even think about them, but I do keep a sharp lookout for grizzlies.

Great bobcat picture, by the way. I've seen bobcats a number of times while in tree stands. Had a big, rangy, long-legged bobcat living on our 40 acres a few years back that I watched come off a little bluff, walk straight up to my tree stand, and take a dump at the base of the tree before walking on. I half expected him to look up at me as if to say, "that's what I think about you hunting my territory." Saw him catch a squirrel one day right behind the house.

[Gary Lange]

Here is a very interesting article Al and others concerning Mountain Lion Attacks. I haven't had time to read it all but the parts a saw were interesting enough that I thought I would pass it on.

http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/beier.htm

[Tim Smith]

Here is a very interesting article Al and others concerning Mountain Lion Attacks. I haven't had time to read it all but the parts a saw were interesting enough that I thought I would pass it on.

http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/beier.htm

That's definitely an interesting page. Good information on the original study.

I also notice the Northern Arizona University Page is linked to a cougar information page (bottom of the table 1 link..."Lion Attacks Introduction and Table of Contents") from a town in CO near where I live now. That's a suburb that has recently been carved out of wild lands around Denver. Looks like they're pretty nervous about having cats around (and certainly there are attacks on humans around Denver from time to time, although a handful of incidents among 7 million residents in the state doesn't exactly leave me shaking in my boots). That page also links to a speech by Michael Crichton saying DDT didn't kill birds (still like Michael Crichton?). In South Denver they also have a coyote sighting web page where you can send out the city workers out to kill coyotes wherever you see them. That's the mentality there.

Also noticing that many of the people in the 1990-2000 attack list (on the cougar info page, not Gary's link) sue the government after they are attacked. I assume they don't win, given that there are no awards cited and the slant on the (1990-2000) page is pretty heavily anti-predator.

I also see that attacks I know about 3rd hand that aren't on this. There are more attacks happening (unreported for one reason or another) than are listed here.