New Info On The Mt Lion Shooting Has Surfaced

[Dave Cook]

Do they like to eat river otters?

[Outside Bend]

I have a hard time believing this guy made a dead-on shot between the eyes while believing his life was in imminent danger, and I really don't buy his story for a second. But he's the only one who knows what went on that night, and there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to prove otherwise. Maybe MDC shouldn't charge him for poaching, but the guy should at least have to reimburse the department for costs associated with the investigation.

I'm not betting on it though, and it's a shame MDC's not moving forward with some sort of reimbursement, but I understand they're lack of motivation- they could make a lot of enemies, from the Farm Bureau to state legislators to the average farmer/landowner- they'd be making their jobs tougher in the future, and it's arguably not worth the fight.

Doesn't make sweeping it under the rug right, though.

[ozark trout fisher]

Has any one defined a "Positive" effect a Mountain Lion in MO has on the Ecology or Environment other than having a new kitty to look at? Other than possible population control of the deer herd.

They are a native species and therefore belong here. No more needs to be said.

[troutfiend1985]

That is all fine and dandy here on this forum. It would be a slam dunk conviction. But you may want to do a little more investigating into the feelings and thoughts of those that would have been the jury. And you won't be getting a change of venue either. And please don't compare the MDC to the local police. There is a huge difference between the dweebs that were beat up in school and are now all hyped up on sugar donuts and attitude and those that have a deep appreciation for the outdoors like us.

Chief, the prosecution would have a great case. The idea of backing off a case like this solely for the idea that a jury might not buy it is a pretty weak move. And if you really think about it, most likely this case wouldn't even had made it to the jury anyways, 96% of all convictions happen in the pretrial phase because of a plea bargain. And 90% of all cases that are prosecuted end in a conviction. With this, and the fact that the evidence points against the guy who shot the lion, I think that this would have been an easy case to at least file.

What I am really wondering is what the hell the MDC's stance is on Mountain Lions. It seems to be deny that they exist in the first case, then oh well if someone shoots a mountain lion because we don't want them anyways. I really don't buy the idea of not prosecuting in this case and I guess I'm more shocked that an agency like this resorts to politics over enforcement. And its not like this is some town out in the middle of nowhere, this is a small town outside of Kansas City and I have been there many times. Oh well, whats done is done.

[Wayne SW/MO]

It's a shame the MDC thinks the public is stupid and won't notice that the cat was up the tree because it was afraid of the dogs! We're to believe that the cat would suddenly become emboldened and come out of the tree to attack a human, something else they are normally afraid of, in spite of the dogs?

Give me a break!

[Tim Smith]

Has any one defined a "Positive" effect a Mountain Lion in MO has on the Ecology or Environment other than having a new kitty to look at? Other than possible population control of the deer herd.

Tourism leaps to mind. Some types of tourists definitely WANT predators in the area. What is the perceived value of a fishing/hunting/camping site with and without predators? Does the reputation of the Ozarks as a natural vacation destination increase or decrease if mountain lions are present. If you can manage the low-level risks of predators and still keep them in the area, even the possibility of seeing one becomes an economic draw for some markets.

As far as environmental issues...

Here's one article that discusses how mesopredators (like raccoons) have become over abundant and are causing environmental problems. Most of the song bird deaths in the US are due to nest predation by raccoons, for instance.

The Rise of the Mesopredator

Author(s): Prugh LR (Prugh, Laura R.)1, Stoner CJ (Stoner, Chantal J.)1, Epps CW (Epps, Clinton W.)2, Bean WT (Bean, William T.)1, Ripple WJ (Ripple, William J.)3, Laliberte AS (Laliberte, Andrea S.)4, Brashares JS (Brashares, Justin S.)1

Source: BIOSCIENCE Volume: 59 Issue: 9 Pages: 779-791 Published: OCT 2009

Times Cited: 8 References: 66 Citation Map

Abstract: Apex predators have experienced catastrophic declines throughout the world as a result of human persecution and habitat loss. These collapses in top predator populations are commonly associated with dramatic increases in the abundance of smaller predators. Known as "mesopredator release," this trophic interaction has been recorded across a range of communities and ecosystems. Mesopredator outbreaks often lead to declining prey populations, sometimes destabilizing communities and driving local extinctions. We present an overview of mesopredator release and illustrate how its underlying concepts can be used to improve predator management in an increasingly fragmented world. We also examine shifts in North American carnivore ranges during the past 200 years and show that 60% of mesopredator ranges have expanded, whereas all apex predator ranges have contracted. The need to understand how best to predict and manage mesopredator release is urgent-mesopredator outbreaks are causing high ecological, economic, and social costs around the world.

[Al Agnew]

And actually, what Tim's post above is pointing out...is that mountain lions DO eat river otters. A river otter is a classic mesopredator, and a mountain lion is a class apex predator. With the loss of ALL our apex predators in the Ozarks (black bears barely qualify, if at all, because they aren't really predators), humans are the only population curb on the abundant mesopredators, and with the loss of popularity of trapping, humans are doing little to control mesopredator populations. The Ozarks ecology really would benefit from having an apex predator.

Other than that, the benefits of having mountain lions is mostly aesthetic. They wouldn't be much of a tourist draw because even in country where they are abundant, they are almost never seen by the casual visitor (or even the outdoors oriented native). It's just the idea that we would be living and recreating in a fully functioning ecosystem with the chance of seeing an iconic animal like a mountain lion. For some, that's important, for others it's not.

[Tim Smith]

And actually, what Tim's post above is pointing out...is that mountain lions DO eat river otters. A river otter is a classic mesopredator, and a mountain lion is a class apex predator. With the loss of ALL our apex predators in the Ozarks (black bears barely qualify, if at all, because they aren't really predators), humans are the only population curb on the abundant mesopredators, and with the loss of popularity of trapping, humans are doing little to control mesopredator populations. The Ozarks ecology really would benefit from having an apex predator.

Other than that, the benefits of having mountain lions is mostly aesthetic. They wouldn't be much of a tourist draw because even in country where they are abundant, they are almost never seen by the casual visitor (or even the outdoors oriented native). It's just the idea that we would be living and recreating in a fully functioning ecosystem with the chance of seeing an iconic animal like a mountain lion. For some, that's important, for others it's not.

I should have mentioned the otters, thanks for filling in the blank there, Al.

...and I'll defend the tourism angle a bit by pointing out that predators are part of the overall perception of the natural quality of an area whether you see them or not. Some people want water slides in Branson, other segments of the tourism market value "wildness". Those people look at the wildlife in an area and make travel decisions based on what's there.

The number one thing people want to see in Yellowstone is a bear. I've never seen a mountain lion in Big Bend (and most people don't), but I've been there over and over because its wild enough that I know I could. Same applies for the Cockscomb Jaguar Preserve in Belize. No one ever sees live jaguars there, but it's one of the most popular spots in the country because you could.

It's not a huge economic driver, but it's enough to at least compensate for livestock damages.

[jdmidwest]

Do they like to eat river otters?

If they did, +1 for the mountain lion.

[Chief Grey Bear]

What I am really wondering is what the hell the MDC's stance is on Mountain Lions. It seems to be deny that they exist in the first case, then oh well if someone shoots a mountain lion because we don't want them anyways.

I agree the case should have been filed. I just think it would have died though. Either way the MDC has gotten a black eye.

I don't understand why some continue to spread untrue falshoods about the MDC. They have never denied that the cat's have been in Missouri. Since the first confirmed sighting in 1994, all the MDC has stated is that there is no evidence of a resident breeding pair. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand????