Canoe Outfitting

[id10t]

Started outfitting my MR Legend this week. It will be used for River Fishing & Camping. After paddling it in stock form I decided what changes to make. When i solo I will paddle from the stern seat. I replaced the standard flat seat with a contour seat and lowered it 2 inches to lower the center of gravity. I removed the carry yoke in the center and replaced it with a flat seat frame to be used as a fishing deck (to be outfitted later). I laced the canoe to create lash points from one end to the other to secure camping gear, Ice chest etc.

Plan to work on the deck over the next few weeks. Will be adding a magnetic tray in the center hole and plano box shelf under the deck.

[GloryDaze]

Nice- I have the 15 MR Legend as well and find it to be perfect for the ozark streams. I kept the thwart, but drilled a few holes and added some bungies to hold my stuff pliers, tackle box, camera and rod holder. I also paddle from the bow seat when soloing and lowered mine about 1 3/4".

How's your freeboard with the weight you have in the boat. I tend to float heavier since I like to pack plenty of ice a brewskies. I'm not sure if I could have drilled the holes for the laces that low, would be afraid with two guys my freeboard wouldn't be enough.

Anything else you are thinking of customizing??

I'll try to add a pic later of my set up as it is now.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Looks good. A little cabin fever?

[GloryDaze]

You know, after looking at the lacing again its not as low as I originally thought. The boat looks great though!!

[id10t]

You know, after looking at the lacing again its not as low as I originally thought. The boat looks great though!!

Thanks

I struggled with this for a long time. All of the old time river trippers I talked with kept saying the same thing. 2.5 to 3 inches from the bottom of the gunwales gives the best pull down on what you are trying to lash. It allows you to pack boat gunwale high and still pull your gear down to the hull keeping it tight. After running it through my pea brain 11289 times I got the drill out.

When I paddled it the 1st time I road really high. I weigh 175 and have gotten all of my over night gear down to 30lbs less food. It has a lot of freeboard with just me. Dont plan on paddling tandem. Unless my wife wants to go (which she always does NOT)

It was a huge change from my old boat. The Legend was like a sports car on the water or maybe I should say ice. It felt really tippy but handled like a dream. Flick the paddle and you are going that direction. Lowering the seat made it a completely different boat. Still nimble but a lot more stable.

I have to admit after 25 years of canoeing it is very hard to drill a hole in the side of a perfectly good boat. It is also nerve wracking when measuring it all out.

I just ordered one of these from dryboxs.com. Kind of expensive but it will hold all of my gear and provides flotation should I ever hit that rock and you know tip (which I have never ever never done )

[id10t]

Looks good. A little cabin fever?

Wife went to the Beach for a week with her sisters. Parked her jeep outside in the snow and started drilling:blink:

[ColdWaterFshr]

That is one sweet boat, but forgive me for being so direct . . . . someone needs to keep you away from the drill!

I can understand tying a few things down, but dangit son . . . what are you wanting to lash down so bad and so tight? 2 dozen pit bulls?

You got over 40 holes in your boat now. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, but I would worry that some of those holes would develop cracks. Especially if they are subjected to being pulled tight.

I've got the exact same boat, only it is the Dagger Reflection 15, and love it. I've loaded her down and only felt the need for 2 bungee cords. I'll post up a picture of me in it with about 400 lbs of gear if I can find it.

[Al Agnew]

The beauty of a canoe is that you CAN outfit it exactly how you want to. I wouldn't have done any of the things you did, but if it works for you it's perfect.

But for others who may be considering outfitting a tandem canoe for solo use, I just want to point out something...

I'm assuming that when you paddled the canoe solo before making your alterations, you were paddling from the stern seat. The reason a canoe like that feels tippy is not entirely due to the height of the seat, it's also where you sit. When sitting in the stern seat, or even in the bow seat turned around backwards as many paddling a tandem canoe solo do, you're sitting at a relatively narrow part of the boat, and on a canoe like yours it's quite narrow. Small differences in your balance will make for larger effects when you're sitting at a narrow end. Move your sitting position closer to the wider middle of the boat and you'll immediately notice an increase in primary or initial stability. It won't affect final stability as much, but it will definitely make the canoe feel a lot more stable. I've had people who owned Old Town Pack solo canoes really complain that they are tippy, but the first thing I did with mine was move the seat forward to near the center of the canoe, and I found mine to be quite stable. I even RAISED the seat on mine.

Another thing about paddling solo from the stern...you CAN make the canoe more stable from that position by lowering the seat. I never want to do that because the lower the seat is, the more difficult I find it to get in and out of the boat, and when fishing I like a little extra height above the water. You can also make the boat more stable by loading it fairly heavily and loading it so that it's almost perfectly level front to back, but I could never see loading a canoe down with extra stuff like rocks just so it would be trimmed level. And one other thing about paddling from the stern, as I'm sure you already know...it is much more difficult to keep the canoe going straight when you want to paddle down a long dead pool or across the lake. It takes a lot more correction on each paddle stroke.

I don't mean to rain on your parade. You may find your modifications to be exactly what you wanted. And if you are going to be using the canoe tandem at any time, no matter how seldom, it pays to keep the seating arrangement to where you can do so. But if I was setting that canoe up for strictly solo use, I'd move the rear seat forward as far as I could and still be able to reach over the gunwales to paddle efficiently. For the average size paddler, about the maximum width where you can paddle efficiently is 31 inches or so. I'd measure the width of the canoe at several points, and where it was about 30-31 inches wide is where I'd want the center of the paddling seat to be.

[GloryDaze]

I'm not sure how long you have owned yours, but I've paddled mine for a year now. You are right about it feeling tippy at first- once I lowered my seat it made a slight difference, but the biggest difference is when I have more weight in her spread evenly. I've gotten so comfortable in mine that I can now stand up and fish in it. If you haven't paddled it alot, you will find it handles much bettter in moving water.... my two best trips in it were down the Indian Creek and Upper Jacks Fork and I can't wait to try it on the Mulberry this spring! The rocker is not too bad on it, but I've noticed on a windy day the thing is a constant battle to paddle. I end up spending more time making corrective strokes than going forward.

Like you, the only time I paddle it tandem is when my wife goes with me (once a year). I couldn't lower the seat too much since I'm tall and my feet hardly fit under it. I'm 6'4 and weigh 220lbs- so with gear and a cooler I bet I'm putting somewhere between 280- 325lbs in it.

I don't think you will develop cracks in the royalex as I've seen many people drill those holes and add the lacing. But I also wouldn't pull your straps extra tight. I would think if you did and had some impact on the side it may crack??

Here's a couple pics of my simple set up:This is a view from my seat- - I drilled a few holes at different lengths on the thwart to be able to have quick access to the things I use most often: from eft to right in the pic: rod, gerber, camera, tackle box, seeds, sun block, hemostats, rod.

I also varied the tension on the bungies so they could be used for several different items I may need to hold on to. As for holding items in the bow and stern- I simply run 2 bugies from the carrying handle to the back of the seat to keep things in the boat should I tip (I don't have a pic of this set up)

[id10t]

That is one sweet boat, but forgive me for being so direct . . . . someone needs to keep you away from the drill!

I can understand tying a few things down, but dangit son . . . what are you wanting to lash down so bad and so tight? 2 dozen pit bulls?

You got over 40 holes in your boat now. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, but I would worry that some of those holes would develop cracks. Especially if they are subjected to being pulled tight.

I've got the exact same boat, only it is the Dagger Reflection 15, and love it. I've loaded her down and only felt the need for 2 bungee cords. I'll post up a picture of me in it with about 400 lbs of gear if I can find it.

I had all of those same thoughts.

I called and talked to MR about the warranty etc. This is the way they have been putting in lashing for whitewater flotation and river tripping for a long time. Normally air bags or foam blocks would go in the stern and bow. The point of lacing is to spread the pressure on the flat surface between the holes. There is no one single point of pressure it is spread out along the whole hull. The majority of the pressure is on the tubing loop. Unlike d rings or holes in the gunwale which tend to pull out and create a single point of pressure. You can also lace skirts to the outside laces if needed.

As far as pressure on the tie down I have no intention of using ratchet straps . The pressure I meant was having your lash points below your gear center point.

I am well aware it is overkill for what I use the boat for 95% of the time but hey I know I can hit class 4 rapids with two pit bulls (which I have) and the next door neighbors ranger bass boat and all will be well.