Another Mt. Lion Is Murdered

[jdmidwest]

I just don't see any justification in either of these cases to shoot the animal. What ever happened to slowly trying to back away or making noises to scare it off? The only animal I fear in our outdoors is the two legged type.

Duhh, they had a gun! Only sheep that are not armed back away.

[Al Agnew]

Only good that can come of this is that every nimrod who decides to shoot one will now report it and say he felt threatened, which might actually give us a clearer picture of how many there are out there. Before now, it's possible that some people have been shooting them and staying quiet about it.

There's probably not enough of them to make it workable for Missouri mountain lions, but in Montana, if you shoot a grizzly, you better be able to show evidence it was charging you. And even if you shoot one in self defense, you only get one strike. If you ever shoot another one, you lose your hunting privileges for life...no matter if you shoot the second one while it's chewing on your leg. Maybe MDC should do some kind of probation with mountain lion shootings. Shoot one and say you felt threatened, fine. But if you ever again break ANY kind of game law in any way, you lose your hunting privileges for life.

[troutfiend1985]

Al, I couldn't agree more, and this is why I was so upset when the MDC did nothing with the first shooting in Richmond. Self defense is such an easy claim because Missouri states that shooting the animal is acceptable if you feel threatened. MDC really, really needs to get off their arse and do something with this situation, like prosecuting.

[Stoneroller]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149674/its-coming-right-for-us

can't get this to embed so you'll have to watch it at the site

jd is the 'j' for jimbo?

[troutfiend1985]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149674/its-coming-right-for-us

can't get this to embed so you'll have to watch it at the site

jd is the 'j' for jimbo?

That is pretty funny. I can't say that I am a southpark fan, but I bet that some of this happens. Shame too, talking about protecting wildlife ends up with people questioning your political affiliations. Look, right is right and how the MDC handles the mountain lions is 180 degrees from right. JD, I can't understand how someone could justify shooting a creature like this.

I hope that some political pressure comes down on the MDC for their compliance with this poaching, and I am meaning poaching. I am usually not a fan of these activists, but here would be a good time for some activists to come in and draw some attention on the MDC.

[Phil Lilley]

Is there more information besides the article from Kirksville that I'm not seeing? If not, how can you say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they shot the animal just because they wanted to? You're judging what happened without really knowing what happened.

Not saying they should have. I'm not sticking up for MDC. I agree with most of what has been said regarding the killing of an animal that's not threatening anyone but you all are jumping all over MDC and the hunters without knowing all the facts.

I bet MDC is considering how to deal with this issue -- increasing numbers of bears and mountain lions in the state. They will have to create new rules, laws. This is a new occurrence, at least within the last couple of years.

[troutfiend1985]

Is there more information besides the article from Kirksville that I'm not seeing? If not, how can you say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they shot the animal just because they wanted to? You're judging what happened without really knowing what happened.

Not saying they should have. I'm not sticking up for MDC. I agree with most of what has been said regarding the killing of an animal that's not threatening anyone but you all are jumping all over MDC and the hunters without knowing all the facts.

I bet MDC is considering how to deal with this issue -- increasing numbers of bears and mountain lions in the state. They will have to create new rules, laws. This is a new occurrence, at least within the last couple of years.

Lilley:

Here's all the info I have. I guess the MDC was called to an Amish farm. There was some sort of event where the people were scavenging for Coyotes. Nearly 100 hunters were on the land at the time and 12 of the hunters saw the cat. No dogs were with the hunters. There is a video on this site showing the lion;

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=571117

Apparently the lion was shot in the head, as they show the gun shot wound. I don't know about hunting/shooting, but I do know how adrenaline can affect a person, and to me it seems that this guy must have been a good shot if he was in fear that the lion would attack him. Also the fact that there was 100 people with guns would tend to make me think that there was enough people around to scare this animal, and most of these cats are not out to kill humans. I also think that alot of people on this forum, including myself, have had bad experiences with the MDC and reporting mountain lion sightings(the Yellow Lab). And the MDC didn't really do an outstanding job on the last incident in Ray County. Add these facts up, and given this incident and I think some people are growing frustrated with what is going on.

[Stoneroller]

from the information that MDC has made available I'd say they've provide very little, if any, evidence to prove that this animal posed a clear and present danger to the safety of any human, livestock or otherwise. simply being in proximity of an animal does not make it dangerous, nor does it justify killing the animal. 'It's coming right for us!'

I agree, what's right IS right.

[Randall]

I agree that mountain lions should be protected and those that kill them without cause should be prosecuted. Based on what i've read, MDC should investigate this incident further but I really don't think they should file charges unless/until they have an ironclad case against the people involved. If MDC does a piss-poor job of investigating or gets too eager to set an example the case stands a good chance of being dismissed or the defendants acquitted, which would get more publication and embolden would-be poachers beyond the extent to which failure to prosecute this incident would. Additionally, it does remain possible that this cat was spooked and behaving as though it was cornered. If it was becoming aggressive, regardless of whether it was in self-defense, it may have posed a threat equivalent to deadly force and killing it was certainly justified under those circumstances. Finally, the hunters probably did not intentionally provoke it and were otherwise acting within the law, thus justifying killing the animal if it became aggressive toward people.

If MDC was to prosecute this, they would have the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the cat was shot in violation of the law which provides that a shooting is legal if the cat is posing a danger to people. It appears as though all of the evidence currently favors the hunters who claim the cat was posing a danger to them. An MDC investigation would probably shed light on the behavior of the cat, the range at which it was shot, the angle of the shot, etc.... Simple interviews outside the presence of the other hunters should be able to put to bed any question as to whether the cat actually posed a danger and the circumstances under which it was shot.

Nobody wants to argue that even an intentionally provoked animal should be allowed to attack or kill a human, but we would probably all agree that intentionally provoking a non-game animal for the purpose of killing it or just pissing it off, ultimately resulting in the death of the animal, should be punishable. (I'm including animals out of season or taken by non-permissible methods as non-game). In my view, MDC owes it to the people to investigate this incident in good faith but charges shouldn't be filed unless there is evidence showing that these guys intentionally provoked the animal or shot it without justification. If they prosecute this without proof it will be a waste of taxpayer money, a waste of judicial resources and it will not deter others from killing mountain lions but may embolden them by setting a precedent for finding in favor of defendants who say the cat posed a danger.

[jdmidwest]

That is pretty funny. I can't say that I am a southpark fan, but I bet that some of this happens. Shame too, talking about protecting wildlife ends up with people questioning your political affiliations. Look, right is right and how the MDC handles the mountain lions is 180 degrees from right. JD, I can't understand how someone could justify shooting a creature like this.

I hope that some political pressure comes down on the MDC for their compliance with this poaching, and I am meaning poaching. I am usually not a fan of these activists, but here would be a good time for some activists to come in and draw some attention on the MDC.

Stoneroller brought up Dick Cheney, surprised he did not blame it on Bush.

This is not poaching, poaching is someone killing something against the law. The last 2 cases were killed in self defense, the animal was turned in and the shooting was reported, no laws were broken. Poachers would have sold the hide, stashed the carcass, and would have kept quiet about it.