Linn County Sighting Confirmed To Be A Mountain Lion

[Stoneroller]

Care to site your sources?

i'll try to find the exact link, but it was either nebraska or south dakota that has confirmed breeding populations and have had 25 confirmed sightings in the past 5 years, that's an average of 4 sightings/year.

We've had 4 in 3 months, using your term.. going under that assumption, we'll have 12 sightings this year alone, in 2 years we'll surpass a state with confirmed breeding populations...

I'm not saying the MDC is lying or purposefully trying to mislead people, although that arguement could be made in light their recent elk plans, I'm saying they need to take a long hard look at what they are saying, clearly there are mt lions here, and I think the public would be better served if they said something like "no breeding populations, but occassionally individuals are observed."

[Chief Grey Bear]

de nile. not just a river in africa. it's not a theory when there have been 4 sighted in the past 3 months, only 2 of which have been sexed because they were killed. i dont have to establish any conspiracy, i'm posting MDC's facts.

the fact that this is the 4th confirmed sighting inside of a few months,

I stated that I'm starting to see holes in MDC's mantra of no breeding populations in Missouri.

We've had more sightings in the past 3 months than some of the states that have established breeding populations have in a year long period.

It's my opinion that MDC needs to do a bit more data collecting before trying to sell everyone on their assumption that we dont' have breeding populations based on the fact that nobody has called up with a litter of mt lion kittens under their shed.

We've had 4 in 3 months, using your term.. going under that assumption, we'll have 12 sightings this year alone, in 2 years we'll surpass a state with confirmed breeding populations...

I'm not saying the MDC is lying or purposefully trying to mislead people, I'm saying they need to take a long hard look at what they are saying, clearly there are mt lions here, and I think the public would be better served if they said something like "no breeding populations, but occassionally individuals are observed."

And that is all they have ever said. And that is what everyond tried to tell you.

and cgb, you clearly have no idea what a personal attack is.

OK for those of you who might be a little slow and/or chemically imbalanced,

Is that clearer for you or do I need to draw some pictures?

I have a B.S. in Zoology, that's the study of animals, NOT the study of zoological parks as you probably think it is. So before you hop on your little high horse and try to get all psuedo-intellectual...you'd better have something worthwhile to add to the conversation other than just being socially inept.

You are right. I don't know why I said that.

I'm not saying the MDC is lying or purposefully trying to mislead people, although that arguement could be made in light their recent elk plans,

I would ask you what they lied about here but,......

[jdmidwest]

I have to agree with Chief, I'm not seeing it. Where are the holes? Have they found cubs in the state? Have they found animals which they can identify as being born in the state? Have they found females with recent birth scars indicating successful breeding in the state?

There's been all sorts of documented cases of odd animals in Missouri- wolves, elk, mule deer, piranha, savanna monitors, alligators, tundra swans, Pacific loons, flamingos, wood storks, golden eagles, snowy owls, all sorts of exotic hummingbirds... Critters, be they cinnamon teal or mountain lions, can move an awfully long way, and occasionally they crop up in places you wouldn't expect. But saying an animal is occasionally present in the state and saying an animal has a breeding population in the state are two entirely different things.

It seems pretty cut and dried to me- MDC hasn't found any evidence to say there's a breeding population in MO, so they're doing the public no disservice. No offense, I know you care passionately about this issue, but I think you're reading too much into it, and seeing things that aren't really there.

You forgot the Taneycomo Squid.

[Stoneroller]

ok fine, Chief is always right, anyone he disagrees with is always wrong, sooner we all realize that the sooner we can get back to my original point. Even when I say "i'm not saying MDC is lying" Chief still feels the need to ask what I say they are lying about. Can't you read guy? I just said "i'm not saying they are lying" yet you just can't let it go. Always have to have the last word, and always have to be right. What's it like going through life with that crushing burden, always being right? back to the discussion...

here's an article from last may out of Indiana.

Mountain lion confirmed in rural Greene County

A mountain lion has been confirmed in a rural part of Greene County east of Bloomfield as a result of a new Department of Natural Resources policy designed to systematically collect data and evaluate reported sightings of such animals.

A mountain lion's presence was verified by Scott Johnson, the DNR's non-game mammal biologist and member of the DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife's team that assists in reviewing reports having credible evidence.

Johnson made the determination from photographs taken by motion-sensitive game cameras placed in the area after a preliminary investigation found evidence consistent with mountain lion behavior, including an eviscerated deer carcass buried under a pile of leaves.

The cameras were set on April 30, and multiple images of a mountain lion were captured at approximately 2:30 a.m. on May 1.

Johnson was contacted after a conservation officer from the DNR Division of Law Enforcement received a call from a citizen. Conservations officers helped Johnson set the trail cameras and have been informing local residents of the mountain lion's presence.

Mountain lions are known by many names, including cougar, puma, catamount and panther. Historically, mountain lions (Puma concolor) lived in most of the eastern United States, including Indiana. Different published reports cite the last documented case of a wild mountain lion in Indiana as somewhere between 1850 and 1865.

The chance of encountering a mountain lion today in Indiana is almost non-existent, but people should be alert to their surroundings. If an encounter does happen, the MLRT points to advice from authorities in Western states, where mountain lions are more common:

Do not approach a mountain lion. Give it a way to escape.

Do not run from a mountain lion. Instead, stand and face the animal. Make eye contact.

Do not crouch or bend over. Do all you can to appear larger. Raise your arms, open your jacket or shirt. Wave your arms slowly and speak firmly in a loud voice.

Hold children and pets near you.

Fight back if attacked using big sticks, stones, or any other available items.

"One thing to point out is mountain lions are not stalkers," said Gary Langell, the DNR's private lands program manager and developer of the mountain lion policy. "They don't stalk prey. They tend to pick an active game trail, like a deer trail, and wait for a deer to come by. That's typically why you don't see livestock kills from mountain lions. They lay in wait rather than stalk."

The purpose of the policy is to develop a consistent procedure to investigate reported sightings and to institute a formal data collection and storage system.

"The objective is to keep the public abreast of all developments regarding mountain lions in Indiana based on the best available scientific information," Langell said. "More than anything, it was prompted by increased reports of mountain lions migrating east, specifically out of South Dakota. Of course, there have been a couple reports from Michigan, and one in Chicago. At that point, it becomes more apparent we could have mountain lions show up in Indiana."

Without additional evidence, Langell said it's impossible to say if the mountain lion photographed in Greene County is wild or is a formerly captive cat.

The DNR occasionally receives reports of mountain lion sightings around the state, but typically the evidence has turned out to be something other than a mountain lion, has been inconclusive, or has proved to be part of an Internet hoax.

Since the policy's inception March 1, 19 mountain lion sightings have been reported. The report in Greene County is the only one confirmed to be a mountain lion.

Langell said two reports were confirmed by biologists as animals other than a mountain lion. Sixteen were designated as "unconfirmed" either because of no physical evidence or because photographs provided were of insufficient quality to identify characteristics of any animal type.

Prior to implementing the policy, a DNR biologist investigated and confirmed in late 2009 a mountain lion in Clay County based on evidence submitted by a hunter who had taken photographs from an elevated hunting stand. Another biologist investigated a report near Idaville in White County in December, but evidence was inconclusive.

Mountain lions are a protected species in Indiana, but state law allows a resident landowner or tenant to kill a mountain lion while it is causing damage to property owned or leased by the landowner/tenant. If the landowner/tenant wishes to have someone else take the mountain lion, that person is required to secure a permit from the DNR Division of Fish & Wildlife.

For additional information on mountain lions, visit the Cougar Network at http://www.easterncougarnet.org/, or go to www.easterncougarnet.org/Assets/pumaidguide.pdf for an identification guide.

see how Indiana talks about Mt Lions? Huge difference in the mantra they use than what Missouri uses.

[flytyer57]

'Bout time for that big red "X" on this one.

[Outside Bend]

Mountain lions are known by many names, including cougar, puma, catamount and panther. Historically, mountain lions (Puma concolor) lived in most of the eastern United States, including Indiana. Different published reports cite the last documented case of a wild mountain lion in Indiana as somewhere between 1850 and 1865.

From the MDC website:

Although common at the time of European settlement, the last known historical specimen in Missouri was killed in the Bootheel area in 1927.

The chance of encountering a mountain lion today in Indiana is almost non-existent, but people should be alert to their surroundings.

From the MDC website:

The chance of encountering a mountain lion in Missouri is very, very small—almost non-existent. People, pets and livestock are at much greater risk from automobiles, stray dogs and lightning strikes than they are from mountain lions. However, if you do encounter a mountain lion in the wild, these responses may improve your chances of avoidance and survival.

If an encounter does happen, the MLRT points to advice from authorities in Western states, where mountain lions are more common:

Do not approach a mountain lion. Give it a way to escape.

Do not run from a mountain lion. Instead, stand and face the animal. Make eye contact.

Do not crouch or bend over. Do all you can to appear larger. Raise your arms, open your jacket or shirt. Wave your arms slowly and speak firmly in a loud voice.

Hold children and pets near you.

Fight back if attacked using big sticks, stones, or any other available items.

"One thing to point out is mountain lions are not stalkers," said Gary Langell, the DNR's private lands program manager and developer of the mountain lion policy. "They don't stalk prey. They tend to pick an active game trail, like a deer trail, and wait for a deer to come by. That's typically why you don't see livestock kills from mountain lions. They lay in wait rather than stalk."

From the MDC website:

* STOP. Back away slowly if you can do so safely. Running may stimulate a lion’s instinct to chase and attack. Face the lion, stand upright and maintain eye contact.

* DO NOT APPROACH A MOUNTAIN LION, especially one that is feeding or with kittens. Most mountain lions will try to avoid a confrontation. Give them a way to escape.

* STAY CALM. Talk to it in a calm yet firm voice.

* DO ALL YOU CAN TO APPEAR LARGER. Raise your arms. Open your jacket if you’re wearing one. If you have small children with you, protect them by picking them up so they won’t panic and run.

* If the lion behaves aggressively, THROW STONES, BRANCHES OR WHATEVER YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON without crouching down or turning your back. Wave your arms slowly and speak firmly. You want to convince the lion that you are not prey and that you may, in fact, be a danger to it.

* FIGHT BACK if a lion attacks. Mountain lions have been driven away by prey that fights back. People have fought back successfully with rocks, sticks, caps or jackets, garden tools and bare hands. Remain standing or try to get back up.

When you walk, hike or bike in states with an established mountain lion population, GO IN GROUPS and MAKE PLENTY OF NOISE to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. A sturdy walking stick can be used to ward off a lion. Make sure children are close and within sight at all times. Talk with children about lions and teach them what to do if they see one.

The purpose of the policy is to develop a consistent procedure to investigate reported sightings and to institute a formal data collection and storage system.

From the MDC website:

In 1996 MDC established a Mountain Lion Response Team (MLRT) with specially trained staff to investigate reports and evidence of mountain lions.

"The objective is to keep the public abreast of all developments regarding mountain lions in Indiana based on the best available scientific information," Langell said. "More than anything, it was prompted by increased reports of mountain lions migrating east, specifically out of South Dakota. Of course, there have been a couple reports from Michigan, and one in Chicago. At that point, it becomes more apparent we could have mountain lions show up in Indiana."

From the MDC website:

MDC wants to learn more about mountain lions in Missouri and encourages all citizens to report sightings, physical evidence or other incidents so they can be thoroughly investigated. To make a report, contact the Mountain Lion Response Team by e-mail at mountain.lion@mdc.mo.gov.

The DNR occasionally receives reports of mountain lion sightings around the state, but typically the evidence has turned out to be something other than a mountain lion, has been inconclusive, or has proved to be part of an Internet hoax.

From the MDC website:

The MLRT has investigated hundreds of mountain lion reports. Animals reported as mountain lions include house cats, bobcats, red foxes, coyotes, black and yellow Labrador retrievers, great Danes and white-tailed deer. Almost all reported tracks have been those of bobcats or large dogs.

Since the policy's inception March 1, 19 mountain lion sightings have been reported. The report in Greene County is the only one confirmed to be a mountain lion.

From the MDC website:

Since 1994 a total of 15 free-living mountain lions have been confirmed in Missouri, but there is no evidence of a reproducing population in our state.

Mountain lions are a protected species in Indiana, but state law allows a resident landowner or tenant to kill a mountain lion while it is causing damage to property owned or leased by the landowner/tenant. If the landowner/tenant wishes to have someone else take the mountain lion, that person is required to secure a permit from the DNR Division of Fish & Wildlife.

From the MDC website:

Mountain lions are classified as "extirpated" in Missouri, but remain protected under the provisions of the Wildlife Code. However, section 3 CSR 10-4.130 (6) of the Code provides that any mountain lion attacking or killing livestock or domestic animals, or threatening human safety may be killed. Mountain lions killed during the protection of life or property must be reported to MDC immediately and the intact carcass, including pelt, surrendered within 24 hours.

see how Indiana talks about Mt Lions? Huge difference in the mantra they use than what Missouri uses.

They look about the same to me.

What is it exactly you want MDC to say, that there's a possibility of a breeding lion population in the state? What's the value of that conjecture?

[Chief Grey Bear]

ok fine, Chief is always right, anyone he disagrees with is always wrong, sooner we all realize that the sooner we can get back to my original point. Even when I say "i'm not saying MDC is lying" Chief still feels the need to ask what I say they are lying about. Can't you read guy? I just said "i'm not saying they are lying" yet you just can't let it go. Always have to have the last word, and always have to be right. What's it like going through life with that crushing burden, always being right? back to the discussion...

No I am not always right. This has nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong. When you started this thread you made the claim that the MDC was not being truthful with the public in regard to Mt. Lions breeding within the boarders of the state of Missouri. I challenged you to prove them wrong by providing facts. Nothing more, nothing less.

When you claim that the MDC is not being truthful with the public, you better have some facts to back it up. From reading this thread and others, it is appearant that you have a obvious disdain and distrust of the MDC. Everyone here knows that I am a huge supporter of the MDC. And I am not embarassed to say so. They provide us with more than you can imagine. And there is some incredibly hard work that goes into what we take for granted that not a lot of people know about. With that though, that does not mean I am happy with everything they do. There are some areas that I would like to knock some sense into them. But for the other 99% of the work they do, I love it. So when you go to bashing them undeservedly, you better have your facts to back up your claim.