Northerns

[aftersh0ck]

I read in some book about fishing Missouri several years ago that there was a small breeding population of Northerns in the Mississippi right around the Northern border of Missouri. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, but I thought it was kind of an interesting note. Here at Lake Sherwood there was a stocking of Northerns a long time ago in a fairly deep 100 acre lake, and rumor has it that they were caught for about 5-10 years after the stocking. I have it on pretty good authority that the stocking occurred, but the stories of them being caught years after are just stories-they may or may not actually be true.

It seems extremely unlikely to me that Northerns are native to a stream like the Meramec, or anywhere else in Missouri far south of the Iowa line. I think you may be getting them confused with pickeral, which are basically a smaller version of Northern Pike that can handle warmer water temperatures. It's a common mistake, and before I knew any better, I once saw a pickeral swimming around in the upper Current while I was trout fishing and thought it was a small Northern. I said so to another fisherman later on in the day and learned my mistake.

with all respect.

im not confused. caught lots of pickerel at duck creek.

copy and use outside the forum, its not connecting for me either while on the site.

ones the full details of the fish and list of places all through out missouri

the other compact of list of counties

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.g...aspx?id=0100124

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.g...aspx?id=0100124

heres a map of native range, compared to the class stocking areas

http://nas.er.usgs.g...x?SpeciesID=676

as for private stocking. someone did the same to the bigger lake at raintree

[Al Agnew]

Couldn't get those links to open at all, even outside the site.

I just have to think the reports from various Ozark streams have to be from fish which got there from escapes from hatcheries, or maybe bait bucket stocking from some nimrod who caught some farther north and carried them back to Missouri. A fish as aggressive as a northern pike should be easily caught, and with the number of people fishing those streams, if there was any kind of breeding population people would be catching some. Only other possibility is that some northern pike are such roamers that individuals make their way from wherever the nearest breeding population is to these out of the way places in the Ozarks.

[exiledguide]

I've been told that the MDC found that they not only will not reproduce but wouldn't survive in MO lake waters. I wish they we could have them here a lot of fun to catch and one of the best tasting fish ,I think, we every fried up also are supposed to be good baked or smoked. They are a little difficult to filet, one extra cut to remove the y bones. The only Northern I ever saw caught in MO was on the Mississippi at Portage Des Sioux caught by my neighbor fishing for crappie in the slew behind the shrine. That was about 40 years ago. The last I heard no fishing was allowed there any more.

[aftersh0ck]

the forum was shortening them for some reason. had to remove the http://

i copied both straight out of the mdc website. also try the usgs.

nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=676

mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/mofwis/Mofwis_Summary.aspx?id=0100124

Missouri Fish and Wildlife Information System Summary Navigation

Summary information for PIKE, NORTHERN Common Name PIKE, NORTHERN

Scientific Name ESOX LUCIUS

Status GAME

Primary Habitat Association Aquatic - river/stream

Preferred Habitat Occurs in lakes, reservoirs, large streams, sloughs, oxbows, marshes and backwaters. Prefers areas with dense aquatic vegetation and avoids strong currents.

Distribution Occurs mostly north of the Missouri river and in the lower Osage R., also in a few reservoir and rivers in southern Missouri *002*.

Known to occur in these counties: BOONE, CALLAWAY, CARTER, CEDAR, CLARK, COLE, CRAWFORD, DEKALB, HOLT, LEWIS, MACON, MADISON, MARION, MILLER, OSAGE, PLATTE, RALLS, RANDOLPH, RAY, SALINE, ST. CHARLES, WAYNE

mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/mofwis/Mofwis_Detail.aspx?id=0100124

Missouri Fish and Wildlife Information

Taxonomy

Common Name: PIKE, NORTHERN

Phylum: CHORDATA

Class: OSTEICHTHYES

Order: SALMONIFORMES

Family: ESOCIDAE

Genus: ESOX

Species: LUCIUS

Taxonomic Authority: LINNAEUS

Taxonomy References: 001

Status

GAME

Status References: 011, 020

Habitat Summary

Occurs in lakes, reservoirs, large streams, sloughs, oxbows, marshes and backwaters. Prefers areas with dense aquatic vegetation and avoids strong currents.

Primary Habitat: Aquatic - river/stream

References: 012

Distribution

General Occurrence in State:

Occurs mostly north of the Missouri river and in the lower Osage R., also in a few reservoir and rivers in southern Missouri *002*.

County Occurrence Common and Unknown and Unlikely:

CRAWFORD BUTLER BENTON ADAIR CASS

OSAGE CAMDEN POLK DADE DOUGLAS

DEKALB CARROLL SHANNON HOWARD HOWELL

MADISON CHARITON TEXAS JACKSON JASPER

RAY MONROE HICKORY JEFFERSON OZARK

BOONE REYNOLDS OREGON JOHNSON ST. FRANCOIS

PLATTE AUDRAIN PEMISCOT LACLEDE STODDARD

CARTER CLINTON CHRISTIAN PHELPS VERNON

CEDAR GRUNDY NEWTON PIKE BARTON

LEWIS LINCOLN BARRY SHELBY DUNKLIN

MARION PETTIS NEW MADRID SULLIVAN IRON

SALINE KNOX ST. CLAIR WARREN LAWRENCE

CLARK LIVINGSTON STE. GENEVIEVE HARRISON MCDONALD

COLE PUTNAM BATES LINN MISSISSIPPI

MILLER ANDREW CAPE GIRARDEAU MERCER PULASKI

RANDOLPH BUCHANAN DENT SCOTLAND RIPLEY

ST. CHARLES CALDWELL GREENE ST. LOUIS SCOTT

WAYNE CLAY HENRY WASHINGTON WRIGHT

CALLAWAY FRANKLIN MORGAN DALLAS BOLLINGER

HOLT LAFAYETTE PERRY GASCONADE STONE

MACON MONTGOMERY TANEY RALLS SCHUYLER

NODAWAY WORTH ATCHISON WEBSTER GENTRY

COOPER DAVIESS MARIES MONITEAU

References for distribution: 002, 010, 024, 033

Distribution by Watersheds

Wyaconda R.

North Fabius R. and Middle Fabius R.

South Fabius R.

Miss. R. from Des Moines R. to MO. R.; and North R.

Meramec R.

Castor R. and Castor R. Diversion Channel

St. Francis R. from Headwaters to Wappapello Dam

Mo. R. from Nishnabotna R. to Nodaway R.

Mo.R. from Nodaway to Kansas City

Grand R. from Headwaters to Shoal Creek

Little Chariton R.

Sac R.

Osage R. from Bagnell Dam to Mo. R.

Gasconade R. from Big Piney R. to Mo. R.

Mo. R. from Kansas City to Little Chariton R.

Mo. R. from Little Chariton R. to Gasconade R.

Blackwater R.

Black R.

Comments:

Distribution by Ecoregions

Central Till Plains

Ozark Highlands

Distribution by Potential Natural Vegetation

Bluestem Prairie/Oak Hickory Forest

Oak-Hickory Forest

Distribution by Natural Divisions of Missouri

Glaciated Plains: Western

Glaciated Plains: Eastern

Glaciated Plains: Lincoln Hills

Big Rivers: Upper Missouri

Big Rivers: Lower Missouri

Big Rivers: Upper Mississippi

Ozark Border

Ozark Border: Missouri River

Ozark Border: Mississippi River

Ozark: Springfield Plateau

Ozark: Upper Ozark

Habitat Associations

Species is associated with Aquatic habitats

National Wetlands Inventory Association:

Lacustrine

Palustrine

Riverine

Aquatic Associations:

Palustrine, Forested, broad-leaved deciduous permanently flooded

Lacustrine, littoral, Aquatic bed, unknown submergent

Palustrine, Aquatic bed, unknown submergent

Riverine, unknown perennial, Unconsolidated bottom, mud

References for Aquatic Associations:

002, 012, 015, 018

Habitat Types:

Swamp

Pond, Lake, Reservoir

Marsh

Permanent Stream

References for Habitat Types: 002, 012, 013

Terrestrial Natural Communities:

Wetland

Marshes

Freshwater Marsh

Pond Marsh

Swamps

Swamp

Pond Swamp

References for Terrestrial Natural Communities: 002, 010, 012, 015, 018

Food Habits

Trophic Level:

Carnivore

Larval Food Habits

Comments for larval food habits:

Fry may begin active feeding before yolk is fully absorbed *004*

References for larval food habits: Comments for larval food habits:

004

Juvenile Food Habits

Aquatic Insects; See Comments

Salientia (frogs, toads, peepers, tree frogs); Larva stage

Coleoptera (beetles); Larva stage

Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Larva stage

Diptera (flies, midges, mosquitos, gnats); Larva stage

Aquatic Insects; Larva stage

Aquatic Insects; Pupa stage

Diptera (flies, midges, mosquitos, gnats); Pupa stage

Salmoniformes (trout, salmon, smelts, pikes); Juvenile stage

Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Juvenile stage

Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Not Specified

Atheriniformes (killifishes, livebearers, silversides); Not Specified

Percopsiformes (cavefishes, pirate perch, trout-perch); Not Specified

Cypriniformes (minnows, carps, suckers); Not Specified

Copepods (Cyclops, Calanus); Not Specified

Branchiopods (Daphnia, Cladocera); Not Specified

Hirudineans (leeches); Not Specified

Snails; Not Specified

Comments for juvenile food habits:

Also eats aquatic insect nymphs *004,005,015*. Until 25 mm, mainly feed on Entomostracans. At 26-50 mm in length,mainly feed on immature aquatic insects, when greater than 50 mm, diet is mainly fish and other vertebrates. *004*

References for juvenile food habits:

004, 005, 014, 030

Adult Food Habits

Odonata (dragonflies, damselflies); See Comments

Ephemeroptera (mayflies); See Comments

Trichoptera (caddisflies); Pupa stage

Clupeiformes (herrings); Juvenile stage

Ephemeroptera (mayflies); Not Specified

Odonata (dragonflies, damselflies); Not Specified

Trichoptera (caddisflies); Not Specified

Insects Insects; Not Specified

Malacostraca (lobster, shrimp, crayfish, crabs); Not Specified

Aquatic Insects; Not Specified

See comments on seasonal variation; Not Specified

Hirudineans (leeches); Not Specified

Salmoniformes (trout, salmon, smelts, pikes); Not Specified

Cypriniformes (minnows, carps, suckers); Not Specified

Percopsiformes (cavefishes, pirate perch, trout-perch); Not Specified

Gadiformes (cod fishes, codlets); Not Specified

Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Not Specified

Amphibians; Not Specified

Salientia (frogs, toads, peepers, tree frogs); Not Specified

Mammals; Not Specified

Soricidae (shrews); Not Specified

Cricetidae (woodrats, mice, voles, lemmings); Not Specified

Birds; Not Specified

Anseriformes (swans, geese, and ducks); Not Specified

Clupeiformes (herrings); Adult Stage

Comments for adult food habits:

Also eats mayfly and dragonfly nymphs *015*.

References for adult food habits: 002, 007, 008, 014, 016

Niche Requirements

Egg Niche Requirements

Water temperature: cold water: less than 21 c (70 f)

Water temperature specified in comments(00010)

Siltation specified in comments(00050)

Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation

Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex)

Aquatic vegetation: spike rush (Eleocharis)

Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120)

Density of aquatic vegetation: dense

Current velocity specified in comments(00150)

Water depth: shallow

References for egg niches requirements: 002, 003, 005, 006, 015, 016

Feeding Larvae Niche Requirements

Aquatic vegetation

Big river habitat: backwaters

General habitat association specified in comments(00270)

References for feeding larvae niche requirements: 005, 029

Resting Larvae Niche Requirements

Aquatic vegetation

Big river habitat: backwaters

General habitat association specified in comments(00270)

References for resting larvae niche requirements: 005, 029

Feeding Juvenile Niche Requirements

Underwater cover: submerged timber

Underwater cover: woody debris

Underwater cover specified in comments(00105)

General habitat association specified in comments(00270)

References for feeding juvenile niche requirements: 004, 032

Resting Juvenile Niche Requirements

Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex)

Aquatic vegetation: spike rush (Eleocharis)

Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120)

Big river habitat: backwaters

Inland wetlands specified in comments(00250)

Inland wetlands: backwaters

References for resting juvenile niche requirements: 015, 023

Breeding Adult Niche Requirements

Water temperature specified in comments(00010)

Bottom type: organic debris

Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation

Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120)

Density of aquatic vegetation: dense

Current velocity specified in comments(00150)

Aquatic habitat zone specified in comments(00170)

Water level: seasonally flooded

Water level: semi-fluctuating reservoir level (occasional)

Water depth: shallow

Water depth specified in comments(00230)

Inland wetlands: marsh

Inland wetlands: slough, bayou

Inland wetlands: permanent stream

Inland wetlands: pond, lake, reservoir

References for breeding adult niche requirements: 002, 003, 016

Feeding Adult Niche Requirements

Bottom type: mud or silt

Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation

Underwater cover: submerged timber

Underwater cover: woody debris

Underwater cover specified in comments(00105)

Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex)

Aquatic vegetation: pondweed (Potamogeton)

Aquatic vegetation: coontail (Ceratophyllum)

Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120)

Big river habitat: backwaters

Big river habitat: tributary confluence

Big river habitat: sandbar complexes

Water depth: shallow

Water depth specified in comments(00230)

Inland wetlands: swamp

Inland wetlands: marsh

Inland wetlands: slough, bayou

Inland wetlands: spring pool

Inland wetlands: permanent stream

Inland wetlands: pond, lake, reservoir

Inland wetlands: oxbow

Inland wetlands: backwaters

Stream order: second order stream

Stream order: third order stream

Stream order: fourth order stream

Stream order: seventh order stream

Stream order: eighth order stream

Stream order: ninth order or greater stream

Stream order specified in comments(00260)

General habitat association specified in comments(00270)

References for feeding adult niche requirements: 002, 010, 012, 015, 018, 025, 027, 028, 032

Resting Adult Niche Requirements

Stream order specified in comments(00260)

General habitat association specified in comments(00270)

References for resting adult niche requirements: 002, 010, 012, 015

Niche Requirement Summary

Water temperature: cold water: less than 21 c (70 f)

Siltation specified in comments(00050)

Density of aquatic vegetation: dense

Inland wetlands: marsh

Inland wetlands: permanent stream

Inland wetlands specified in comments(00250)

Underwater cover specified in comments(00105)

Water level: seasonally flooded

Stream order: ninth order or greater stream

Stream order specified in comments(00260)

Water temperature specified in comments(00010)

Bottom type: mud or silt

Aquatic vegetation

Inland wetlands: swamp

Inland wetlands: oxbow

Stream order: fourth order stream

Stream order: seventh order stream

General habitat association specified in comments(00270)

Current velocity specified in comments(00150)

Water depth: shallow

Water depth specified in comments(00230)

Inland wetlands: spring pool

Stream order: second order stream

Stream order: third order stream

Underwater cover: submerged timber

Big river habitat: tributary confluence

Big river habitat: sandbar complexes

Inland wetlands: pond, lake, reservoir

Bottom type: organic debris

Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation

Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex)

Aquatic vegetation: spike rush (Eleocharis)

Aquatic habitat zone specified in comments(00170)

Big river habitat: backwaters

Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120)

Inland wetlands: slough, bayou

Stream order: eighth order stream

Underwater cover: woody debris

Aquatic vegetation: pondweed (Potamogeton)

Aquatic vegetation: coontail (Ceratophyllum)

Water level: semi-fluctuating reservoir level (occasional)

Inland wetlands: backwaters

Comments for all niche requirement fields: Code Comment

00010: Temperatures for pike in spawning season should be between 7 C and 19 C the optimum temperature is 12 C *03*. Results of sd. Experimental field studies indicate that in some years high embryo mortality arising from low water temperatures and rapid water temperature fluctuations may contribute to year class failure. A water temperature drop from 10.5 C to about 7.5 C that persisted, was associated with high mortalities (75%) during early embryonic development. When the temperature remained near 5 c, mortality was essentially 100%. Embryos appeared to be tolerant of diurnal temperature changes of up to 4 C *06*. Embyro development is dependent on water temperature a total of 210-270 degrees days above 32 degrees F are needed for embryos to hatch *05*. In a NY study spawning consistantly occurred at temperatures above 5.5 degrees *16*. Temperatures for spawning should be between 7 and 19 degrees C *03*.

00050: Deposition of only 1 mm. Of silt per 24-hour period during early embryonic development caused mortalities of 97% or more *06*.

00105: In SD prairie streams, highest densities were found in areas with snags and woody debris *32*. Young of the year pike appear to favor the sedge eleocharis palustris for cover *15*. Aquatic vegetation types used in spawning are eleocharis spp. and carex spp.*05*. Spawning occurs over any available vegetation so long as depth is suitable and cattail, brush or bushes are absent. Heavy or thick-stemmed vegetation is avoided *16*. Spawns over substrates of flooded terrestrial grasses *05*. Found in beds of elodea, potamogeton, ceratophyllum *18*.

00120: An Alaskan study found that aquatic vascular plants were the most important habitat characteristic. In may-June sedges were used for spawning. In July, as water levels dropped and sedges were no longer available, horsetail was used for cover. Used pondweed in late July-August *15*.

00150: Avoids strong currents *02*.

00170: In a NY study, spawning occurred in open waters over/at any suitable vegetation and depth *16*.

00230: In a NY study, spawning occurred at depths of 6" to 24". Spawning area preferences were correlated with with depth, not vegetation type. As depths changed in the marsh, substrates used shifted accordingly *16*

00250: In the Mississippi River, young-of-the-year were found in backwaters during winter. Backwaters generally had temperatures slightly warmer than the main channel, and also provided refuge from the river current *23*. In IL study, moved into backwaters as water temperatures fell from 10 degrees to 5 degrees C, appeared to leave backwaters in spring when water temperatures were still less than 5 degrees C, but rising *26*.

00260: 44.5% of the samples taken in mo. Were taken in stream orders 07 and 08 *10*. Radiotelemetry study, used water less than 4 m deep majority of the time *18*.

00270: For four to six days larvae don't feed and remain quiescent in the vegetation at or near the bottom *05* foraging by juveniles occured on or near the bottom and in free-swimming zones *04*. In an Alaskan study, habitat was optimal when the water was brown, relatively warm and shallow, and contained dense stands of aquatic vegetation rooted in a muddy bottom *15*.

Life History Information

Origin in state: native

Seasonal distribution in state: all seasons

Foraging strategy: stalking

Foraging sites: water

Foraging sites: feed at surface of water

Foraging sites: feed at mid-water zone

Foraging sites: feed on bottom of stream, lake or pond

Breeding season specified in comments(007)

Spawning site: aquatic vegetation

Gestation/incubation period specified in comments(017)

Parental care of young: no care

Age at sexual maturity specified in comments(022)

Sex ratio: 1:1

Periodicity specified in comments(030)

Mortality rate specified in comments(031)

Limiting factors specified in comments(034)

Regulatory factors specified in comments(035)

Age and growth information specified in comments(038)

Other life history information specified in comments(099)

Comments about Life History: Code Comment

007: Spawn in the early spring *002*.

017: Embryos hatch in 1.5-3 weeks *005*.

022: In a SD study, maturity was determined by length rather then age. Males matured at 32-40 cm., females at 42-60 cm. *009*.

030: In colorado study, were most active April and May, least active in October *017*

031: In a 3-year mi. Study, mortality of eggs and young pike was between 99.56 and 99.93% *004*.

034: Limiting factors concerning n. Pike are rapid water level fluctuations drastic water temperature changes and sediment deposition during the spawning period *005,006,003*. In mo. Reservoirs, are limited by lack of adequate spawning habitat *02,017*.

035: Regulatory factors include yellow perch predation on young pike, cannibalism, competition for food with other fish. Parasites include trioenophorus crassus. Predators of juveniles include bluegills, leopard frogs and dytiscio larvae, and fishing *004,005,016,012*.

038: In a mo. Study, during the first 30 months of life, pike average nearly 1" growth per month *017*.

099: In colorado study, typically moved less than 400 m/day *018*. Will hybridize with chain pickerel *019*

References for life history: 002, 003, 004, 005, 006, 009, 012, 017, 018, 019

Management

Beneficial Management Practices:

Regulate harvest of species being described

Water - develop/maintain spawning/nesting facilities

Water - develop/maintain lakes/ponds

Water - develop/maintain wetlands

Water - develop/maintain freshwater marsh

Water - control sedimentation

Water - control pollution (thermal, physical, chemical)

Water - control water levels

Water - allow flooding of wetlands adjacent to river to provide nursery habitat for fish

Beneficial Management References: 005, 012

Adverse Management Practices:

Water - dredging and filling

Water - control aquatic plants

Water - drainage of wetlands, marshes, ponds, lakes

[Al Agnew]

Actually, I'm glad we don't have them in MO in catchable numbers. Having fished places where they are common, it gets a little aggravating trying to land the toothy critters and get them off your hook (they are not only toothy, but also very slimy). And if you're bass fishing you're constantly losing lures to them when they bite through the line. I'm not a big fan of the pike family, although I enjoy catching a chain pickerel now and then in the winter, and I think those little grass pickerel are cool fish.

[exiledguide]

Actually, I'm glad we don't have them in MO in catchable numbers. Having fished places where they are common, it gets a little aggravating trying to land the toothy critters and get them off your hook (they are not only toothy, but also very slimy). And if you're bass fishing you're constantly losing lures to them when they bite through the line. I'm not a big fan of the pike family, although I enjoy catching a chain pickerel now and then in the winter, and I think those little grass pickerel are cool fish.

They only break your line about 87 percent off the time unlessless you are on a fantastic smallmouth/walleye bite with your one remaining Shad Rap and you are in NW Ontario 35 miles from the closest tackle shop and the biggest Northern you have ever seen swallows your lure then they break you off 100 percent off the time.

[aftersh0ck]

Definatley, fishing for trout and having a full size one come and grab your fish would not be fun let alone

eating them after being stocked.

Close to the bottom in my post above the detailed one it shows spawning and growth rate in missouri compared to other states. it sounds tough for them to grow big let alone spawn in numbers which explains the rareness

of being caught and not being like you see in canada.

Sorry to smash heads with some of you guys. I was just stating the facts on that. Understandable with them being rare and our climit. just not understanding where you have 2 of the most credible sources for fish here saying they are native.

my posting title has me listed as a big mouth buffalo. fitting for this weekend.

The usgs map amazed me on how widespread they have been found.

Tried posting the map directley on here but the background was black for some reason. just have to copy and paste.

right here shows it plain as day.

nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=676

[Bill B.]

After the big Missouri River floods in the 1990s, there were several northerns caught from washout pits in Mid-Missouri. I saw a photo of a 6-8 pound northern hanging in a local bait shop back then. That fish came from a washout near Boonville.

So cetainly a few northerns come down the Missouri when conditions are right. It wouldn't surprise me if every now and then a pike turns up a smaller stream, seeking cooler water. But it wouldn't be a common occurance.

[aftersh0ck]

Thats probally how they got here originally to any of the streams connecting to the missouri and miss.

the others yes from hatcheries in the south.

i understand that we dont fit the profile of a cold water area. we can get rainbow and brown trout

which are from nowhere close to here reproduce in certain streams and without

any denying but cant figure out why its so hard to put professional

documentation of a studies going back to 1930 displayed here and a maps showing its known native range over personal belief. must not be reading or looking at the pages.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188788_187838691260889_100001042785881_502417_6220944_n.jpg

[Al Agnew]

Doesn't really matter, since there obviously isn't a fishable population anywhere in the Ozarks or people would be catching them now and then. I can buy the Mississippi and Missouri floods idea, that some get washed down those rivers in flood and then go up the smaller streams seeking cooler water in the summer.