ozark trout fisher Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 Then again maybe not. Part of being an American in my humble opinion is wanting every person in the world to be afforded the freedoms and rights I enjoy. I just don't believe any person has no right to due process every person has that right. It is what makes this country different from the rest. This person committed a crime and was convicted by the laws of this nation. He will now pay the price for those crimes. The folks who were hiking and crossed into Iran are the perfect example. They deserve due process but that is not the way in Iran. So they sit in prison for crossing an invisible line. I suppose they deserve it if they were not smart enough to know better. (sarcasm fully intended) I am one of those who thinks opportunity should exist for everyone. I was lucky enough to be born in this nation. I will never take that for granted. I have no idea what its like to be from another place that does not afford me the opportunity I have in this country. For me that is what our forefathers had figured out. This nation was built by rejects, religious lunatics, and opportunist or at least that what they were called by their country men who said farewell get out of our country. Turns out those rejects, lunatics and opportunist found a way to coexist and create the basis for a super power. Today many folks in this country seem to think or take what we have for granted. They make everything about themselves and their views and perceptions. I don"t understand how or why anyone would want to take opportunity away from anyone. If someone carries their part of the load then lets get the job done. The best employees I have had are the ones who have gone on to other endevors. The ones who took the risk when the opportunity arose to move up and forward. I cant be mad at them because that is exactly what I did to get to where I am. I wish they were still around my life would be a lot easier. If this nation were as backward as Mexico and Canada was like the US you can bet I would be trying to figure out how to get there to better my life. I have to say I agree pretty strongly with that post. But really, this whether or not the murderer was an illegal immigrant is kinda beside the point. He is a bad, crazy, probably evil human being, but that doesn't anything to do his country of origin or his immigration status. There are some full-blooded Americans that are just as bad as this guy, I'm afraid to say. Mainly what happened was a tragedy. It is beyond horrible to hear of something like that happening to people that were just swimming on an Ozark creek.
Wayne SW/MO Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 If the illegal immigration problem was a few Mexican nationals slipping across the border to work we probably wouldn't have this discussion, but it is not. It fuels a whole criminal enterprise that not only includes drugs, but kidnapping and slavery. Central Americans are being kidnapped and put in slavery in southern Mexico, baited by an offer of a trip to the US. People our being kidnapped and held for ransom in southern AZ. There are shootouts in highway rest stops over cartel territories. The list doesn't end there, they also catch Chinese, Arabs, and other nationals attempting to sneak into this country. So Flytier57, you prefer an anarchist approach to immigration rather than orderly controlled one? Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman.
drew03cmc Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 And don't you think "person" as it apply's to the matter at hand is a legal citizen of this country? Do you really think they had undocumented folks in mind when this was established? I mean really? Do you really think that, you can't be serious. Do you agree with the president when he says he is a "citizen of the world", If you do, (and I'm not saying that you do) it would seem to help me understand that "person" can be anyone with any nationalality as opposed to what I think "person" means as it states and pertains to the subject at hand. I think person refers to an indivituial born here. And if you don't, that is you're right. Still have not heard no Ideas on the immigration thing. Jesus Christ, we get it, you are a dyed in the wool Republican, or even worse a Tea Party supporter. Let me guess, executioners at the borders would suit you just fine. I work with some guys who aren't here legally, but they are here to hopefully better their lives for themselves and their families. I cannot fault them for that seeing how bad Chihuahua, MX is, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Your means of shooting all illegals shows your backwards, redneck views and prejudices. Why not find a way to get them into a naturalization course and become legal? Why not encourage them to obtain dual citizenship? Simple, it would cost too darn much. If you feel the need to continue your bigotry, I will ask that you do it elsewhere on the web, since it is obvious that you cannot handle differing opinions. Maybe go to a Fox News blog as it seems to be your source of "information", true or false as it may be. 94 posts in ten months, and fifteen of them are in this BS thread. How about some fishing reports? Someone will have to present a logical one, cause it's obvious that your solution would be to take all the illegals out and whack em over the head with a shovel... What I think is even funnier is the way you get all hot over what your ancestors may or may not have done for this country... Dude, get over yourself and take your politico-philosophical sophmoric bull to politicalcrossfire.com or something... Ya crass bastard! Cricket, you hit a home run here dude. Andy
flytyer57 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Posted April 30, 2011 So Flytier57, you prefer an anarchist approach to immigration rather than orderly controlled one? No I do not. But the point is not whether the shooter in question was an alien or a citizen. Someone died because they were trespassing and in this country, no matter what nationality you are, using deadly force for trespassing is murder. Anyone convicted of murder in this country faces the laws of this country, whether they are a citizen or not. The matter is not made worse because the shooter in this case was an illegal alien. He could just as easily have been a citizen. If he were a citizen, this conversation would not be happening. Unless someone decided that the citizen had foreign heritage and wanted to act stupid and bring up some racist hate speech like we have seen here. There's a fine line between fishing and sitting there looking stupid.
KATroutman13 Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 My father served in the Navy as did both of my grandfathers. My uncle who contracted M.S. and died at 53, served in the Marines during Vietnam. All of the descriptive refrences you cited about the typical soldier is disheartning at best, and in this case, I do consider the ones to have fallen before me in my family to be my "forefathers", even if you don't... Unless that is how you view the "typical soldier". Good Lord, you are a tightly wound man. If you read my subsequent post, I clarified where I was coming from with "forefathers." And you interpret things like a hormonal woman, "typical soldier" was not used to denegrate the "soldier" but rather to reference that soldiers were, are and for the most part will be, common-people, like you and me, our uncles, fathers, brothers and sisters.
Wayne SW/MO Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 Well it's kind of confusing Flytier57, you say that our military is to "Deny the rights of other to enter this country". I didn't realize that anyone had a "right" to enter this country illegally. I disagree with your take that the shooter being illegal had no bearing. If he was where he belonged he wouldn't have been at the creek. If you don't have an armed robber you don't have an armed robbery. Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman.
Wayne SW/MO Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 . I am one of those who thinks opportunity should exist for everyone. What do you think this country would look like if it was allowed to be overrun by undocumented immigrates from the rest of the world. I suspect Canada would have to build a border fence. Today's release is tomorrows gift to another fisherman.
Fly_Guy Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 so I visit the forum after being gone for a while and find the topic of trespassing in MO rivers and streams. I see that it has gone on for 5 quick pages, and I think 'no way is this just about the topic'. It's a beautiful saturday (though I'm stuck here at work waiting for some samples to arrive) - and y'all are debating illegal immigration on a fishin forum?? Well, while y'all were debating about a topic in which there is no good answer, I went fishing yesterday and caught a beautiful 10 inch brookie and several rainbows and smallmouth and one of the most beautiful streches of river I've ever seen. Y'all ought to be hitting the streams more
flytyer57 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Posted April 30, 2011 Well it's kind of confusing Flytier57, you say that are military is to "Deny the rights of other to enter this country" . I didn't realize that anyone had a "right" to enter this country illegally. I disagree with your take that the shooter being illegal had no bearing. If he was where he belonged he wouldn't have been at the creek. If you don't have an armed robber you don't have an armed robbery. I did not say the military is to "Deny the rights of others to enter the country." I was asking if that is what your forefathers really fought for. I bet no. I bet they fought to protect the freedoms we have in this country. Nobody said anything about entering this country "illegaly." Where do you get this dung. Go back and read what I wrote and don't add any words to it. Just what I wrote. And if the shooter in question was in Mexico, then there may have been someone else there with a gun. That someone else may have killed more than just one person. It doesn't matter even if he were from Mars. Fact is, he was there and he killed somebody. Then he faced the laws of this country and will now serve a long time in prison for it. There's a fine line between fishing and sitting there looking stupid.
flytyer57 Posted April 30, 2011 Author Posted April 30, 2011 What do you think this country would look like if it was allowed to be overrun by undocumented immigrates from the rest of the world. I suspect Canada would have to build a border fence. I say we'd have to start kicking out all the racists and other haters to make room for them. There's a fine line between fishing and sitting there looking stupid.
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