Trespassing In Mo Creeks And Rivers

[flytyer57]

so I visit the forum after being gone for a while and find the topic of trespassing in MO rivers and streams. I see that it has gone on for 5 quick pages, and I think 'no way is this just about the topic'. It's a beautiful saturday (though I'm stuck here at work waiting for some samples to arrive) - and y'all are debating illegal immigration on a fishin forum?? Well, while y'all were debating about a topic in which there is no good answer, I went fishing yesterday and caught a beautiful 10 inch brookie and several rainbows and smallmouth and one of the most beautiful streches of river I've ever seen. Y'all ought to be hitting the streams more

Well that's all good for you that you can go fishing. The streams here are blown out from record rainfall. Hopefully they'll go down quick so we can get out and enjoy ourselves.

But some here would probably see a person of different heritage than themselves and feel their day on the water is ruined because of their own hate.

[Fly_Guy]

Well that's all good for you that you can go fishing. The streams here are blown out from record rainfall. Hopefully they'll go down quick so we can get out and enjoy ourselves.

But some here would probably see a person of different heritage than themselves and feel their day on the water is ruined because of their own hate.

Now is the time to be hitting Taneycomo - after the massive rain a couple of years back, I was catching nice smallmouth that had likely been staging on the dam. Throw a jerbait or spoon. Sorry about all the rain too - i've seen pictures and it looks bad.

There are only two things that I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other peoples cultures... and the Dutch!

[KATroutman13]

Nonsense, How would you define an illegal immigrant in 1776? While it's true that the majority of the troops in the trenches were either poor, indentured or small land owners, the higher classes were involved also. Most of them financed troops and provided sons to act as officers.

Can you quote the English law that made all of them illegal?

Wayne,

I love your avatar. Needed to say that.

What most folks don't realize is that the "myth" of the open door America prior to the late 1800's is just that, a myth. There was not a major federal immigration policy as we see it today, but in the late 1700's Congress passed a naturalization law that allowed only free white men to be naturalized as U.S. Citizens. People snuck into this country all the time, despite regulation, albeit, very relaxed. This did not change again until the late 1868 with the passage of the 14th Amendment.

And, there's a small sect of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans that believe that the southern states bordering Mexico rightfully belong to Mexico and thus, we are the illegals.

Also, states were allowed to enact immigration policies policies to restrict immigrants from entering their borders.

Don't kid yourself, Wayne, the involvement of the "higher" classes as officers is not the glorification found in movies like the Patriot. Agreed, they financed the wars, but they were not in the trenches. They were the astute, the elite and they drew the battle plans rather than execute them.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Wayne,

I love your avatar. Needed to say that.

What most folks don't realize is that the "myth" of the open door America prior to the late 1800's is just that, a myth. There was not a major federal immigration policy as we see it today, but in the late 1700's Congress passed a naturalization law that allowed only free white men to be naturalized as U.S. Citizens. People snuck into this country all the time, despite regulation, albeit, very relaxed. This did not change again until the late 1868 with the passage of the 14th Amendment.

And, there's a small sect of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans that believe that the southern states bordering Mexico rightfully belong to Mexico and thus, we are the illegals.

Also, states were allowed to enact immigration policies policies to restrict immigrants from entering their borders.

Don't kid yourself, Wayne, the involvement of the "higher" classes as officers is not the glorification found in movies like the Patriot. Agreed, they financed the wars, but they were not in the trenches. They were the astute, the elite and they drew the battle plans rather than execute them.

No doubt there were those who got into the country without notice, but I doubt that it was anything approaching a problem because of transportation restraints. Like all things in the past, nothing is written about the trivial. Ships had passenger manifest as far back as the 1600's. I would think Jumping Ship or a route through Canada would be an option, but not a change in culture that would affect the political stance of the country or the economy.

I'm sure much of what you say about the revolutionary officers is true, but any force has to have a pyramid of leadership. I would think this would be even more true with a force comprised of many teenagers. I still contend that it wasn't fought exclusively by "Illegal Immigrates".

[Al Agnew]

Hey, guys, if I was moderating I'd probably whack some of these posts. It's getting pretty personal, and also there is some profanity. This is the kind of stuff that makes Phil want to avoid political topics.

But since I'm not moderating, I'll put in my two cents' worth...

To the original thread, it shouldn't make any difference whether the murderer was illegal or not, but as Wayne said, if he hadn't been here illegally, he wouldn't have murdered here. But I believe he deserves due process...and then hang him!

As to the immigration problem, it's a romantic notion that America should be the land of opportunity for everybody, and it's a notion that for some parts of our history was more or less true. But in my opinion, times change and you have to change with the times. We now have a struggling middle class, a growing population (thanks in part to legal and especially illegal immigration), and we're starting to run up against finite resources. It could be argued, and I believe it's true, that we don't need huge numbers of unskilled laborers becoming citizens, because they put strains on resources and infrastructure, and many of them become competition for that struggling lower middle class. At the same time, there's no doubt that we still need unskilled labor that a lot of Americans refuse to do or can't do. So what I would propose is a three part plan. First, make coming into the country for unskilled work easier and more streamlined. Instead of workers sneaking across the border, they should be able to come in openly with just enough paperwork to allow authorities to keep track of them. Second, make becoming a citizen of this country more difficult. Let's start picking and choosing who we allow to become citizens, meaning people who have real contributions to make to this society. Third, merge portions of the military with the Border Patrol as soon as we disentangle ourselves from all our overseas ventures, and really get serious about patrolling the borders, as much for smuggling and terrorist encroachment as for simple illegal immigration.

As I read what I just wrote, I admit that it makes me a little uneasy. It doesn't seem very American, somehow. But in a changing world, maybe you just have to change.

If you don't agree with me, fine...I'm not sure I agree with myself. It's a tough problem.

[Guest P. owensby]

Jesus Christ, we get it, you are a dyed in the wool Republican, or even worse a Tea Party supporter. Let me guess, executioners at the borders would suit you just fine. I work with some guys who aren't here legally, but they are here to hopefully better their lives for themselves and their families. I cannot fault them for that seeing how bad Chihuahua, MX is, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Your means of shooting all illegals shows your backwards, redneck views and prejudices. Why not find a way to get them into a naturalization course and become legal? Why not encourage them to obtain dual citizenship? Simple, it would cost too darn much. If you feel the need to continue your bigotry, I will ask that you do it elsewhere on the web, since it is obvious that you cannot handle differing opinions. Maybe go to a Fox News blog as it seems to be your source of "information", true or false as it may be.

94 posts in ten months, and fifteen of them are in this BS thread. How about some fishing reports?

Cricket, you hit a home run here dude.

First off, you don't know me. I probibly hate the Bush's as much as you do albeit for diffrent reason's. In no way am I a Republican, but I am a conservitve (libertarian, ohh ! )and I do think that there is a reason for laws in this reguard, it seems like many of you don't. Time and time again I pointed out it was a Bi-partisan problem and time and time again, you members that have a obvious left leaning stance, just glossed over it. But I wouldn't expect anything diffrent from someone like you and others that believe like you. If being Racist is wanting immigration law to be enforced, then you are going to have to think what you want about me, but also know this, it is just not me who believes that the law of the land should be carried out and you are branding them as well. And quit using the Lords name in vain. Have some class. And I'm the one who is flawed? Yeah right...

[Guest P. owensby]

Someone will have to present a logical one, cause it's obvious that your solution would be to take all the illegals out and whack em over the head with a shovel...

What I think is even funnier is the way you get all hot over what your ancestors may or may not have done for this country... Dude, get over yourself and take your politico-philosophical sophmoric bull to politicalcrossfire.com or something... Ya crass bastard!

Cricket, I just sent you my info if you like to call me a Bastard in person. I'll drive anywhere you like and I don't think I left anything out as far as address and such. Look forward to hearing from you.

[Guest P. owensby]

No I do not. But the point is not whether the shooter in question was an alien or a citizen. Someone died because they were trespassing and in this country, no matter what nationality you are, using deadly force for trespassing is murder. Anyone convicted of murder in this country faces the laws of this country, whether they are a citizen or not.

The matter is not made worse because the shooter in this case was an illegal alien. He could just as easily have been a citizen. If he were a citizen, this conversation would not be happening. Unless someone decided that the citizen had foreign heritage and wanted to act stupid and bring up some racist hate speech like we have seen here.

At no point in any of the threads did I say anything racially negative about Hispanics. It's not there and I challenge you to find said statements to support your allegation, because afterall what you just levied against me is a pretty serious term and I just can't stand for it. In the end Flytyer it comes down to this, you have an agenda and that is one of someone who is awash in a sea of far left wing propaganda. I just sent you my info too as well if you would like to discuss matters in a more personal setting, I would never think about saying that about someone without giving them a chance to respond in a up close manor. You also just proved another point. You went to page one of the leftist play book and that is when in doubt or when things aren't going your way, throw the race card out because in the end, thats all you got. Be a man and back up your allegation. Notice I did not have to get personal while I made my point. Although that is pretty easy to do from a keyboard several hundred miles away.

[Outside Bend]

Otters, mountain lions, illegal immigrants- all in the Axis of Evil.

[Wayne SW/MO]

As Al said there are ways to control illegal immigration while providing workers and opportunities for citizenship.

It wouldn't be hard to take it to the private sector and have them set up temporary workers from non threatening countries. A company could take orders for workers from American employers, be responsible for background checks, health insurance, and maybe most important seeing that they leave or are deported if they complete a contract of break laws.