Ticketed For Paddlefish Out Of Season

[plexlove]

I was down at the darn side of Springfied lake today snaggng for gar (which is legal untilthe 15th), I hooked 4 pasddlefih though nd when i got them to bank I took a picture and released them, they were out of the water no longer than 3 minutes. Well the game wardens showedup and ticketed me for "take/attempt o take paddlefish out of season"....when i told him i caught them on accident and released them right away he told me they had an agent hidingwho saw us take pictures of them and since we did that thy can ticke me. Whats reallymessed upi another guyfishing downthere had never caught anything big so i let him reel one in, he never even touched the fish yet he got the same ticket as me!

Does anyone know if this s even legal to do? I would think being that what the ticket states it wuld not hold up in court being that i did NOT take or attmpt to take a paddlefish!

If anyone has any advce on this please let me know. Thanks!!

[plexlove]

I was down at the darn side of Springfied lake today snaggng for gar (which is legal untilthe 15th), I hooked 4 pasddlefih though nd when i got them to bank I took a picture and released them, they were out of the water no longer than 3 minutes. Well the game wardens showedup and ticketed me for "take/attempt o take paddlefish out of season"....when i told him i caught them on accident and released them right away he told me they had an agent hidingwho saw us take pictures of them and since we did that thy can ticke me. Whats reallymessed upi another guyfishing downthere had never caught anything big so i let him reel one in, he never even touched the fish yet he got the same ticket as me!

Does anyone know if this s even legal to do? I would think being that what the ticket states it wuld not hold up in court being that i did NOT take or attmpt to take a paddlefish!

If anyone has any advce on this please let me know. Thanks!!

Sorry about the missing letters and words running together, my keyboard is messed up and isnt working properly! lol

[Al Agnew]

Seems like a pretty gray area, but what you have to realize is that there has been a lot of illegal paddlefish snagging and they are not a real common fish (almost endangered over much of their range) so there is probably less tolerance for the gray areas on them than on a lot of other fish. You also might consider that not many people snag specifically for gar, and when you were snagging for gar you were doing exactly the same techniques people do snagging for paddlefish, and a lot different techniques from snagging for suckers. I suspect they watched you, and would have let you go if you had snagged one and then moved somewhere else, but if you snagged four of them it had to look like you were purposely targeting them. Did you actually succeed in snagging any gar? It would especially look suspicious if you snagged four paddlefish and no gar.

[plexlove]

Seems like a pretty gray area, but what you have to realize is that there has been a lot of illegal paddlefish snagging and they are not a real common fish (almost endangered over much of their range) so there is probably less tolerance for the gray areas on them than on a lot of other fish. You also might consider that not many people snag specifically for gar, and when you were snagging for gar you were doing exactly the same techniques people do snagging for paddlefish, and a lot different techniques from snagging for suckers. I suspect they watched you, and would have let you go if you had snagged one and then moved somewhere else, but if you snagged four of them it had to look like you were purposely targeting them. Did you actually succeed in snagging any gar? It would especially look suspicious if you snagged four paddlefish and no gar.

I understand how it looked....I have been snagging for gar for a few weeks now, i didnt even know there were paddlefish in ths area until i snagged one on accident. I use the same technique for gar as i do paddlefish, the onl technique i know! Im not a pro fisherman and know little about it until i researched it. All i know is it doesn matter "what" i claim to be snagging for or "what" it looks lke i was snagging for, i did not tae any or attempt to take any so i did not break the law!

And no i did not get any gar today but then again I wasnt down there that long. But that would be like going catfishing and catching a bass out of season, if you take a picture and throw itback it is no against the law!

I think i am gonna plead not guilty and take this one to court....i wish i had the other guy who got atickets name i would get him to do the same. He never even touched the fish yet got a bigger ticket then me!

[plexlove]

I understand how it looked....I have been snagging for gar for a few weeks now, i didnt even know there were paddlefish in ths area until i snagged one on accident. I use the same technique for gar as i do paddlefish, the onl technique i know! Im not a pro fisherman and know little about it until i researched it. All i know is it doesn matter "what" i claim to be snagging for or "what" it looks lke i was snagging for, i did not tae any or attempt to take any so i did not break the law!

And no i did not get any gar today but then again I wasnt down there that long. But that would be like going catfishing and catching a bass out of season, if you take a picture and throw itback it is no against the law!

I think i am gonna plead not guilty and take this one to court....i wish i had the other guy who got atickets name i would get him to do the same. He never even touched the fish yet got a bigger ticket then me!

Also, in order to have a "legal" gray area, there must be some facts supporting that info. They cant just make stuff up as they go! I read the exact law out of the consevation law book and no where in it does it state you cannot take a picture of the fish. It does say release imediately but i have to take time to get my hook out and pick him up to throw him back in, an extra 30 seconds for a pictue will not hurt it. I believe 99% of fisherman ould agree, i was doing no harm and released it. I just wanted a picture, they are huge!

[Gatorjet]

This is a quote about sub-legal length, but I'm sure it also applies to out of season fish.

Also keep in mind, the regulations states that sublegal fish must be returned to the water unharmed immediately after being caught.

I think your actions appeared suspicious to the agent that was watching. 4 "accidental" catches would be very suspicious. Because of that, they didn't give you a break on the picture taking.

[duckydoty]

pexlove has a point about others catching and taking pictures of fish out of season. Guys on this forum float rivers and streams all the time before bass season opens on June 1st and take pictures of the bass they catch and can not keep.

Keep us informed how this turns out pexlove.

[eric1978]

I'm not going to say you did or didn't deserve this ticket, nor will I speculate whether or not you should contest it in court. But let me pose another scenario to you and see if it changes your perspective at all...

Here in St. Louis, they stock some of our ponds with trout in the winter. Some of the lakes are catch and release only until February. I was fishing one of these ponds in November, when I saw a couple guys start fishing about fifty yards from me. I watched one guy catch a fish while he was talking on his cell phone. He used his rod to drag the fish onto shore, then proceeded to finish his conversation for approximately "3 minutes," all the while the trout flopped around in the gravel and dirt.

I later realized these two guys were fishing with Powerbait, which was also illegal on this pond at the time, so as I was leaving I walked over to them and told them they were illegal, and should drive over to one of the catch and keep ponds if they wanted to fish with bait. While I was talking to them I noticed 3 belly-up trout floating within ten feet of them.

I'm going to assume at least one of those fish died because of poor (downright negligent) handling techniques, so even if they were fishing with legal flies or other lures, I absolutely believe he would still deserve a ticket since the rules clearly state: All fish must be released unharmed IMMEDIATELY.

Just something to think about. Maybe if you had kept the paddlefish in the water and popped the hook out right away, the agent would have given you a pass. Accidents happen, and they know that. But they also know the second a fish is taken out of the water, their chances of survival start rapidly decreasing. 3 minutes is a long time for a fish to be out of the water. I know I can't hold my breath that long.

[3wt]

Gotta say that if you snagged one or two without moving on knowing that you were getting paddlefish...that looks really bad. Once you accidentally catch a fish with a technique you aren't really able to claim ignorance of their presence. Also note that they didn't ticket you after one, two, or even three. I think an argument could be made that they employed unusual restraint, and that you didn't employ good common sense to protect yourself.

Look, the question is of intent. You could always go out snagging for paddlefish, get caught and claim you were after gar. How are the officers supposed to know the difference? When intent is the question, it's always a subjective matter since nobody can get inside your head.

Not to be accusatory, but I think you've got an uphill battle. The judge is not going to see it your way. It does bring up a good question about accidentally taking fish out of season. At what point is it not accidental? I think a judge will say that after multiple accidents in the same area taking pictures of what your accidentally catching makes this no accident.

But good luck.

[Justin Spencer]

I won't really speculate on if what you were doing was right or wrong ethically, but legally I think you had every right to do it. Makes me mad when they have regulations in place that can confuse the law and then try to bust someone on it. Just like catching a bunch of short trout on powerbait in a red ribbon area, lots of fish die but you must throw them back if they aren't 15". If it is legal to be snagging gar right now and that is what you were honestly doing I would fight it for sure. MDC knows the risk of incidental catches in snagging and if they are that worried about it they need to end grabbing for everything all at the same time, or in areas where these species congregate. I would talk directly to the prosecutor and see what he says, then tell him you will fight it so be ready. Otherwise no one will know the law and you will be back in court time after time without resolution. Go to him with all the regs. and the honest story and he might throw it out on his own, give him the name of the CO and his number if he needs to call him. Next time if I were you, once you snag one I would move on, I'm sure it looked like you were enjoying yourselves and trying to snag more after that first one, but I'm not sure that is illegal if you also were getting some gar.