Thoughts On The Bourbeuse

[lee G.]

i guess the question is , where did they come from, and why?

For those of us that dont know?

[Al Agnew]

The most likely origin of the spots in the Meramec system is that they migrated there up the Mississippi from somewhere. Evidence is that they showed up first in the lower end of the Meramec, and gradually spread upstream in the Meramec and other rivers, so they came from the Mississippi, and they were also not native to the smaller streams entering the Mississippi downstream, but began showing up in those streams in sequence going upstream, before they reached the Meramec. Per my own experience, they were in the lower Apple Creek just north of Cape Girardeau by the early 1970s, in Saline Creek in Ste. Genevieve County by the late 1970s, in Establishment Creek farther north in Ste. Genevieve County by about 1980, and in the lower Meramec by the early 1980s. That evidence pretty well shows they came from downstream on the Mississippi.

As to why, when they had never spread up the Mississippi before, I'll give you my theory (one more time, I've given it many times on here before). While the spots are native to the south flowing streams, including the Castor/Whitewater system which is just south of the Meramec system, prehistorically it was a long way by water. The Castor originally ran down into Arkansas before entering the Mississippi well below the mouth of the Ohio River. So fish from the Castor would have had to go for many miles up the Mississippi. And I believe they never did that because, up until the dams were built on the upper Missouri River, the Missouri carried such a heavy silt load that it made the Mississippi between the mouth of the Missouri and the mouth of the Ohio too turbid for spotted bass to WANT to use it as a highway. In more recent times, the Mississippi was also very badly polluted, which would have also stopped them from using it.

Around the beginning of the 1900s, the Diversion Channel was built, diverting the Castor and Whitewater into the Mississippi just south of Cape Girardeau and thus shortening the route for them to reach the Meramec by many miles. But they still couldn't use it because of the turbidity and pollution of the Mississippi.

Then the dams on the upper Missouri were built, reducing the silt load in the Missouri River considerably. And by the late 1960s the clean water laws were in place and the Mississippi was getting cleaner. So it was finally usable as a route for spotted bass spread. And bingo, spotted bass showed up for the first time in Apple Creek, just a few miles upstream on the Mississippi from the Diversion Channel, by 1970, and the rest is history.

There are other possibilities. Spots are a more southern species, and perhaps a warming climate gave them a boost. And there are two other places they could have come from, though as I've pointed out the timeline doesn't support the Meramec fish coming from anywhere else. They could have come down the Missouri and Mississippi from established populations (not native, either) in the Osage system (due to an unknown stocking not long after Lake of the Ozarks was built) or from the Loutre River, where they were stocked by MDC in the 1960s.

But what I KNOW isn't true, though others have suggested it, is that habitat changes on the Meramec and other streams allowed them to spread. Fact is that the lower Meramec, most of Big River, and all of the Bourbeuse have ALWAYS been perfect spotted bass habitat, being slower and murkier than the classic Ozark streams. Had the spotted bass been able to make it to them before, they would have thrived. And in the more marginal spotted bass habitat of the upper Meramec, Huzzah, and Courtois, faster and clearer (and colder in the case of the upper Meramec), they haven't been able to do well, though they are present there now. Once they got to the lower end of the Meramec, they spread steadily upstream, only slowed for a bit by the mill dams on Big River and the Bourbeuse. Fact is that the habitat on these rivers hasn't changed all that much since the pre-spotted bass times, at least not nearly enough to change them from smallmouth streams to spotted bass streams.

[Guest Brian B.]

It would sure make for an interesting study. The only problem I see is I don't know how much smallmouth passion was "luvved" all over out streams 40 yrs ago- so I don't know how accurate the "baseline" for the 20/30 reference would be.

Not trying to be negative, just trying to think logically/ critically about the issue. (Devil's advocate)

Spots are Mississippi River Valley fish- don't get me wrong- "round 'em up" by gosh, whatever... I don't care, I'm simply saying I don't necessarily buy the invasive pitch.

They 'been here a llllllllong time. (They sure are hard to get rid of and all...)

Round 'em up, they fry up really well.

[Al Agnew]

Brian, since I've been fishing these rivers pretty extensively for nearly 50 years, I think I know fairly well what was and was not in them 30 years ago, and the MDC biologists agree with what I said above. Biologists have been collecting and recording fish from Ozark streams for more than 100 years, and there are no early records of spotted bass in the north flowing streams. So they haven't been in the Osage, Gasconade, and Meramec systems for a lllllong time. As I remember, according to "The Fishes of Missouri", MDC says that spotted bass were stocked sometime prior to 1940 in the Osage system, probably in Lake of the Ozarks. The first record they have of them besides in the Osage was in the Moreau River in the 1950s, those fish probably getting there by coming down the Osage. Soon they were also in the Maries River, again probably coming from the Osage. The spots in the Gasconade system came a little later, and could have come either from spread down the Missouri River from the Osage fish, or from the Loutre River, which enters the Missouri very near the mouth of the Gasconade but on the opposite side of the Missouri, and which was stocked by MDC in the late 1960s.

I wish they would do a DNA study of the spots just to see where they came from, but it wouldn't matter much at this point.

[ozark trout fisher]

Was planning to float it today, but someone at the top of the watershed left their garden hose on overnight and now it's way up (all it takes for the Bourb.) I still will try to go if the storms stop within a couple hours unless it gets around 1000 CFS, but it'll be muddy so there won't be much in the way of fishing.

Edit: headed out after all. Gonna have to make that 11 miles from Reikers to Mayers double quick since I won't get there until after noon.....higher water should help. I will post a report. I probably won't be able to fish much because late start/long float, but I still think it's better to get out than not.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Al Agnew, on 09 Jul 2013 - 12:19, said:

Brian, since I've been fishing these rivers pretty extensively for nearly 50 years, I think I know fairly well what was and was not in them 30 years ago, and the MDC biologists agree with what I said above.

Not all of them. I spoke with one, who is a Fisheries Regional Supervisor, earlier this year and is very knowledgeable on that area. We discussed many aspects of that and he mentioned all of the satellite photos of the last few decades that he has studied and noted you can see the changes over time. As we got deeper into the discussion it made me wonder how much has changed on the rivers that I fish that I think haven't changed that much either.

[Guest Brian B.]

Al I am noyt arguing with you on your experience- but even at 100 years of looking back (as best we can anyway)... That is such a small window. Into the past. This has made me curious about this though- I too would like definitive info on just where they came from originally and how far back we. Have records of them.

How many of your buddies have called a spot a largemouth while you are fishing? I have a guy I fish with at Lazy Days Condos- he owns the condos and has a Nitro on a slip there- I had to show Frank the difference- he just thought they were all largemouth and smallmouth. If we are talking fossil records that could be even more confusing.

You have peaked my curiosity about this though- I'll have to look into some of the points you mentioned.

[ozark trout fisher]

Got on the river today. It was only at 250 CFS at 10:30-ish when I last looked at the USGS website......about 10 times that level by the time I arrived, way up in the trees along the stream. I did the float anyway. The eleven mile stretch from Reikers to Mayers took app. 3 hrs with hardly any paddling. Needless to say the fishing was basically non-existent, but still a nice (short) day on the river. I'll try to get back next week when hopefully levels will be more reasonable. As annoying as it was to deal with a muddy river I'd take it over the drought we had this time last year.

Sorry to interrupt the spotted bass discussion. Just didn't feel like starting a new thread to tell everyone I got skunked:)

[Guest Brian B.]

Ozark you can interrupt when I am showing my arse anytime..

So have you ever done well when that river is high(er) and muddy? (Or anyone else. For that matter) I have a few times driven there towing the boat- only to have kinda the conditions you described only to. "Give" and head to the Mineral Fork and wade fish- or. Higher up the Meremac.

I need to learn to fish it when its less than desirabke like you have described.

[Guest Brian B.]

On the spot discussion- I read on MDC they hybridize- with what smallies?

(I suppose I have been fishing Illinois reservoirs for quite a while now.. I fished the crick's before I discivered the pits but not with near the intensity I did the pits.. Any good links on Spots appreciated, always caught them but never gave them too much though- because I enjoyed it I suppose)