Fires

[jscheetz]

Ron,

I agree that frivolous law suits are a major problem in all areas of this country, and I hate to see "green" groups have to do that all the time as well. But - what other option do they have? None. The law is the only thing that will stop a developer from clear cutting a stand of forest for his mall - reason won't, begging and pleading won't, science won't, the lives of a few animals certainly won't - so the only option is to sue them to stop until things can be studied as to the effects of what they are about to do. If you wait until the studies are done the person will have gone ahead and done it! I just think that we should err on the side of caution when it comes to our precious world.

Funny thing is that most people want the same thing. To see the wild places preserved or conserved in some manner so they don't just go away. We may have different ideas about how best to do that, and what best to do with it in the end, but if we would just all be willing to sacrifice a bit of our own wants for the betterment of the whole - I think we could work some things out.

You did say regarding wolves:

but you are going to tell me it is OK to introduce them into and area were you "KNOW" they are going to be in trouble from the start?

Just to clarify that - it wasn't "introducing" them - it was "RE-storing" them - as you recall they were there first. So maybe your question should be "Are you going to tell me that it is OK for us to move into an area that we "KNOW" is inhabited by these animals when we know there is going to be trouble from the start?"

I have enjoyed the dialog with you Ron, maybe someday we will get a chance to meet. You had mentioned your health - are you still able to get out and fish?

JS

[Wayne SW/MO]

My only problem with the green Group's is that there is "NO" longer any middle ground.

I agree with that. There are numerous instances in the West where they have pushed faulty science, the Spotted Owl and the Pacific Murlett come to mind.

One of the largest misconceptions is that the timber companies would cut everything in sight. The fact is they don't do that on land they own and control in many instances, and it depends on the land owner.

Public land is managed by the Dept. of Agriculture, under rules laid out by congress. If the FS says clear cut, then its clear cut, and it brings more to the FS, but not necessarily the timber company. There's no doubt that clear cutting can contribute as much, if not more, to fires as over management did.

Yellowstone is like a lot of forests, its been mis-managed to the point that it will take decades of careful manipulation to bring it back to a semi normal forest.

Don't blame the timber companies, blame those that control the timber.

[MTM]

jscheetz- Introduce or reintroduce does it really matter. They use to have wolves in Central Park at one time I don't see anyone trying to reintroduce them there? LOL

As a matter of fact I have to go in on Tuesday for an MRI. I am having problems with bad pain in the top of my head. Goes from C-1 through my left eye and they think it is a pinched nerve or swollen disc? I will know more later. I have not been able to fish much this year do to the medicine they had given to me. I couldn't get into the sun while taking it? They said it would not be a good idea? Don't know enough about it to make a comment. I just hope they can get me back half way to normal. LOL What ever that is. Ron

[gonefishin]

I understand what MTM is talking about. I am interested in a clean enviroment and I don't see any reason to let the loggers or metal miners lay waste to everything and I don't think MTM does either. I think when MTM talks about greeners he means the people that are so radically left that they would 'let it burn' before utilizing or managing any part of our forests. As to the wolves, as most people, I have never had to live and deal with the problems associated with them. I have heard people say "Wolves NEVER attack man" what a bunch of BS. Wolves are a large predator and as such they will attack anything they see as weaker than them or as food. When thinking about them I think about the very man, Teddy Roosevelt, who gave us Yellow Stone Park. He called them the "Scourge of the Prarie" and said they should be wiped out. It is apparent that he didn't like the problems associated with the large predators and that gives me pause to think that I don't want to deal with them either.

The point is I am interested in a clean enviroment and I want it natural as possible, but I want these things within rational reason.

[jscheetz]

MTM - I was thinking about starting a thread on introducing predators into Central Park - but I think they are already there Truth be told I would rather run into a Wolf than some of the characters I have seen in CP

I pray the MRI goes well for you, and you are able to get back out in the great outdoors!!

Gonefishin - how have you been? Still waving the banner I see - right on! Haven't been on for awhile, been too busy, but I am back now to bring reason and sanity to the board.

If you can send me documented information on wolves attacking man in the U.S. I would love to see it - Good luck.

JS

[gonefishin]

I' doing ok JS. Good to see you around I figured you had given up on us.

As you know I cant produce any scientific documentation about wolf attacks on people however, I do know they are large predators and predators do attack people, I also know they are dogs and are prone to getting rabies. Just because there is no scientific documentation does not mean it doesnt happen. Example, for years austrailians were telling people about a weird animal down there that had a ducks bill, fur, laid eggs and nursed its young. Because some scientist had never been bitten in the posterior by one of these creatures it was obvious that they simply could not exist. Well that is until the 1960's when a scientist just happened to stumble upon a Duck Billed Platapus.

[jscheetz]

GF - Hadn't give up just had to catch my breath! Actually been too busy playin and fishin - so that's good!

I love you guys!!!!! You are the same guys that say there is no "scientific evidence" for global warming - or no evidence of otters having been in MO etc etc - the list goes on - however, just because there is no evidence of wolf attacks doesn't mean it's not happening!! heheheheheheheheheh you are KILLIN me!!!

Comon now - you gotta throw me a bone on this one (pun intended) and at least see the hypocricy in that.

btw - Been doin any fishin lately GF?

JS

[gonefishin]

Yeah but the only thing I can catch are Otters and Mink.

[jscheetz]

but if you lay that mink on a cedar board over an open pit..........

JS

[Wayne SW/MO]

just because there is no evidence of wolf attacks doesn't mean it's not happening!!

Hmmm, no evidence that dinosaurs don't still exist and aren't attacking either. The best ever has to be that timber practices were driving the Spotted Owl into extinction and there was no evidence to the contrary, then the evidence came in, it was other owls!

I think its a job for natural selection, if you think you're prime for being selected for the Red Riding Hood award, stay out of the woods.