Mdc Enforcement Issues

[bigredbirdfan]

ROTFL. Only a fool brings up abuse by MDC on this forum. You will quickly be dog piled into submission and soon be issued your black suit and white nike sneakers and walk around mumbling how good the MDC is.

[buffresources]

Guess that makes me a "fool" but just had to find out what the concensus of fishermen using this site is as far as the MDC Enforcement Division issues and the public.

I spent 25 years as a fed working in natural resources management and have spent a lot of that time on the other side trying to mitigate issues with the public so it will take a lot to "dog pile me into submission". However, I have learned over those years there are always two sides to every story and given enough evidence I can/will change my position (which is still being formed partially by the results of this topic).

I always had remain calm and to reflect frequently on who paid my salary before going to "war" over some trivial issue.

Conflicts between public use and resource protection are always there....even more so now days with large numbers of people demanding their resource interests be met.

[stlfisher]

The problem with the reguatlions is (according information from the MDC in an earlier thread this year) it is in fact legal to harvest 4 brown trout per day from a trout park as long as they meet the 15 inch minimum length limit. This is a big issue on the Current when the Brown's moved up from the river last summer to escape the heat and 40+ where harvested. It is a loophole that was exploited is my understanding.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Oh goodness gracious, I shouldn't have gotten started on this. Basically there are about 10,000 conservation issues that I care about a lot more than trout regulations. So I'm just not going to argue it again. You probably won't end up changing my opinion anyway, and I certainly won't change yours

Let me clarify a little on where I am coming from. When every buck in the state is a 150 class 10 point or better, every smallmouth caught 15+, every brown trout is 20+ and on and on, what do we do next?? Raise the bar some more????

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it goes without printing that you will still catch some fish that are below the mark. But how long will it be before we are bored with the new status quo???

Is it right to manipulate nature for our own selfish ego?? And really, isn't it an artifical satisfaction you are quenching???

[Feathers and Fins]

Chief bare with me on this one: I have been a trophy fisherman for years for lack of better words. I grew up in the monster bass country and 8lbs started to become very common place. My trophy hunting came in on the size yes but to do it with the lightest line possibly.

I watched many guys going out and throwing 65lbs braid for bass and other game fish. I had to ask myself where is the skill or art in that? For myself I wanted more I wanted to be able to catch a large fish on the lightest possible line and to that end I feel gratified

When you brought up “raising the bar” the first thing that came to my mind was just that, Trophy fish are earned by giving them every possible advantage in their favor. Hooking them is one thing but when the fights on I want to know it’s been my skill at playing a fish that landed it. I want to know it’s my knowledge at finding them that caused the hook-up and I want to know it’s my knowledge of the forage base that gave me the insight to pick the best rig, lure or bait to bring it all together.

Anyone can manage for monster bass, Drop a bunch of Florida Strain LMB in Tablerock or Taney and in 8 years you will see monster bass. But then again people may want to up the size limit then. Management by trained biologist should be what dictates Size and Bag limits. But the Bar should be measured by IMO the skill of the angler when the odds are stacked against the angler.

[ozark trout fisher]

Let me clarify a little on where I am coming from. When every buck in the state is a 150 class 10 point or better, every smallmouth caught 15+, every brown trout is 20+ and on and on, what do we do next?? Raise the bar some more????

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it goes without printing that you will still catch some fish that are below the mark. But how long will it be before we are bored with the new status quo???

Is it right to manipulate nature for our own selfish ego?? And really, isn't it an artifical satisfaction you are quenching???

Chief, like I said I've just been down this road too many times....I'm a bit tempted to do it again, but I don't think I will. Trout management is really just not a priority in my mind, considering some of the other things that are facing our rivers and streams. Same goes for smallmouth regs or antler point restrictions. All small potatoes, when you look at what is happening to so many of our resources on a larger scale.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Chief bare with me on this one: I have been a trophy fisherman for years for lack of better words. I grew up in the monster bass country and 8lbs started to become very common place. My trophy hunting came in on the size yes but to do it with the lightest line possibly.

I watched many guys going out and throwing 65lbs braid for bass and other game fish. I had to ask myself where is the skill or art in that? For myself I wanted more I wanted to be able to catch a large fish on the lightest possible line and to that end I feel gratified

When you brought up “raising the bar” the first thing that came to my mind was just that, Trophy fish are earned by giving them every possible advantage in their favor. Hooking them is one thing but when the fights on I want to know it’s been my skill at playing a fish that landed it. I want to know it’s my knowledge at finding them that caused the hook-up and I want to know it’s my knowledge of the forage base that gave me the insight to pick the best rig, lure or bait to bring it all together.

Anyone can manage for monster bass, Drop a bunch of Florida Strain LMB in Tablerock or Taney and in 8 years you will see monster bass. But then again people may want to up the size limit then. Management by trained biologist should be what dictates Size and Bag limits. But the Bar should be measured by IMO the skill of the angler when the odds are stacked against the angler.

I think we are on the same page. I don't have a problem with "trophy hunters" that hunt the quarry on natures terms. It is when they want regulations changed to favor their quest by producing an unatural amount of "trophies".

I often wonder what Fred Bear would think of todays hunters. Or maybe Charlie Orvis. How would he view those today that use his equipment to chase "trophies" artifically enhanced by strict harvest limits designed to create said "trophies".

You last sentence says it all. That is spot on!!!!!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Chief, like I said I've just been down this road too many times....

I think you are missing my point.

[ozark trout fisher]

I think you are missing my point.

I think maybe I was.

I do get your point about the ethics of us trying to manipulate nature for our own uses, and I agree with you to an extent.

[Feathers and Fins]

Chief, I believe much has been lost on the art of fishing and hunting. There is a lot of blame to be given to the media ( hunting fishing shows ) When I was growing up I remember well the one show we had on a weekly base (The Outdoor Life) I will never forget the beginning introduction to the show.

I think from the early 90’s shows started to focus more on the amount of fish caught and the size as well as the size of animals killed then about the hunt itself which has breed a new type of hunter and fisherman. Those who think numbers and size are the defining and definitive standard to the day. People now believe more it’s about size and numbers then the experience.

I know there are guys who still think catching a 4 inch wild trout on a small midge or dry fly find more enjoyment from that then catching any 20lbs Brown trout, I know there are still guys that think a day spent taking in the beauty of nature even if they get no game or catch no fish put more value to that then a million dollars. But those guys are quickly becoming extinct just like the dodo bird.

It is something I think about often as I love reading the stories of Hemmingway, Gray and so many others, you don’t read what they wrote you experience it in the descriptions of the paintings of words they wrote that you could see and smell those areas in your mind. I’m betting you grew up and others here experiencing that. It is what we had and our role models. We wanted to experience that our self.

Today we see show after show of Monster Whitetails and giant fish or large numbers of them. That seems to be the role models for today’s sportsmen. They are setting a bar to be met and goals not of the experience but of the harvest. We had the fathers of conservation as our role models so to speak. Today’s personalities are the role models of selling a product and the harvest more so than the experience.

You want to know what Fred Bear would say: I have this link saved and read it often. I think Fred speaks better than I can http://www.fredbear-online.com/quotes.html Fourth one down I think is the best medicine and the answer to your question.