Copying fly patterns...

[loo10]

Earliest known Leech pattern was tied by Ug;

a well known Neanderthal fly-fisher.

I think there's a picture of it on a cave wall

in Wyoming somewhere.

It was dubbed with the stained scrotum hair

of a male Triceratops.

Ug was the first tyer to say, "Don't lick your fingers."

There, that should settle the great Leech Debate!!

[Danoinark]

Ug?

I thought it was Manfred, Medieval barber. Tied leeches to use as placebo's during his research of blood letting.

[Zach Bearden]

I think that we should have a tying contest who ever wins gets all the flies maybe? Im not sure though but I have plenty of patterns that I could tie up for this little contest..... but what would we judge them on the amout of being able to catch fish or maybe by the looks? But this is just a suggestion....

[Rusty]

Earliest known Leech pattern was tied by Ug;

a well known Neanderthal fly-fisher.

I think there's a picture of it on a cave wall

in Wyoming somewhere.

It was dubbed with the stained scrotum hair

of a male Triceratops.

Ug was the first tyer to say, "Don't lick your fingers."

There, that should settle the great Leech Debate!!

Now that was funny.

[Danoinark]

Since this thread started out about the ethics of copying orignal flys..and designing new ones. A more interesting contest would be for original idea fly. Those interested could submit an original fly of their design and judges could pick the best overall.

Dano

[Danoinark]

One of the coolest fly swaps ever was one where the swapmeister collected a few tying materials from a craft store, used some standard bait fishing hooks, and sent each person in the swap an equal amount of materials and hooks. The concept was to tye something original with just the materials sent. There were some extraordinary designs to say the least. Dano

[Terry Beeson]

There were some extraordinary designs to say the least.

That sounds like my typical tying session... You should see some of my San Juan Worms....

I would hate to be in a contest like this with someone like Earl Stanek... the "MacGiver" of fly tying... I swear, you could give that guy some staples, a discarded soup can top, a bread bag, and some dust bunnies from under your bed and 30 minutes later you would swear there was a live dragonfly in his vice...

[Micheal Kyle]

Mike came out with that on the web in 1999. Like I said the way we know the Mohair Leech today of all dubbing. The Mohair that is on the card is the way of the past in my oppinion. The one with a dubbing loop you can make fat or skinny. And Shane came up with that and now Hareline sells his original dubbing.

I think that the question that was prersented in the very begining of the thread has just been answered. There are very many diffrent ways to tie certain flies, or like the old timers say there is more than one way to skin a cat. oh I just had an idea cat leeches(LOL).

I would like to see a fly tying contest we just need to pick one pat and figure out who the judges will be.

[jim murphy]

Yeah, this topic was suppose to be about wether copying a pattern created by someone else was okay or not?

Then, it became a topic on if you think tie a scud as good as Bret Rader?

Then, have a tying contest?

Then, who designed the mohair leech?

Now, it is what were we talking about again?

So here are my answers to these questions:

Copying a pattern? for personal use? sure why not, I do not see anything wrong with it. Making improvements to an original, claiming the new improved pattern, certainly but at least give some credit to who gave you the inspiration to improve the existing pattern. Copying a pattern and selling it, if tied in house special request by a loyal customer and assuming only for that customer, sure, to some degree. Tying it in house and selling it to the public, providing one can make an EXACT DUPLICATE, go for it if it is already available to the public, but at least ask first. Copying and selling the Rights to a commercial fly tying company and collecting a Royalty, HADES NO!!!!!!

Can I tie a scud as good as Bret Rader? I am sure I could if I tried, but then do I really need to? My two favorite scud patterns for fishing the upper end of Taneycomo are one designed by David Freeman and the other by Oliver Edwards. Or maybe the question should be, Can I be as good a tier as Bret Rader? I am sure that some of my tying skills are equal to or even better than his and vise versa. Does this mean he is a better tier than me or I than him? NO, but my hands do shake a lot more now than they use to so it will not be long before my skills diminish. Though, I would like to see him tie his scud pattern and a couple of the variations, if he was willing? I would even bring the beer.

Tying contest? Competition, that is what everything is coming to. Those of us who have been around for a while and earned the respect for our tying abilities, know who the good tiers are out there.

Who designed the mohair leech? Well, first off this needs to be broken down a little more, MOHAIR YARN and MOHAIR DUBBING. Mohair yarn, in a book, which I just happen to have, called "The Fly-Tyer's Almanac" by Robert Boyle and Dave Whitlock, Copyrighted in 1975, a tyer by the name of Thom Green tied a mohair yarn leech that he called "My Friend the Leech." Mohair dubbing, I believe Randall Kaufmann was the first to create a mohair leech out of mohair dubbing, in the mid 80's. The Mohair leech that is all the rave today is the one redesigned by Shane Stalcup, with the new sparkle blends of leech dubbing, for which I am taking credit for some of the special color blends I have mixed to tie this phenomenal fly.

What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, Bret Rader's scud pattern being copied and sold in an area fly shop. Well, I can attest to the fact that it is not at Backcountry Outfitters. So, I am assuming this happened at one of the three shops in the Branson area. I have not been in Anglers and Archers or River Run Outfitters in about a month, and I did not see any scud imitations, at that time, that looked like Bret's in any of these two shop, besides they have their own issues to deal with. Have not been in Phil's shop, but Phil did start the topic of copying someone elses pattern and wanting to know if it is okay? WOuldn't think this would happen at Phil's being he started the topic and is Bret's friend. Have heard of rumors about a shop in Branson doing this before, but then those are just rumors. Which of the three shops could it be? Could it be one of the shops I have not been to in about a month, possibly OR is it Phil's, who is inquiring if it is okay to copy someone elses fly pattern and profit from it? At this time, I will have to wait for conclusive evidence to make my final decision. Maybe, I will come across Bret and ask him for the real story. It is pitiful that the art of fly tying has come to this.

jim

[Jeremy Hunt]

It would have the same fly so we could make a fair vote, but a great idea. I think we could add our own touch, but you would still have to know it is the pattern. You never know, sometimes by changing a fly pattern makes it better and more durable. I guess that’s what we all tiers try to do.