Copying fly patterns...

[Phil Lilley]

I honestly don't know if it's my shop or not. I bought some flies from Bret early on- 2 years ago- wholesale- and carried them in my shop. I still have a few left. There's a scud-looking fly tied with ostrich herl I think he called the g-bug that Jeremy has tied and put in the bend. He hasn't restocked them in many months. I don't label my flies so there's no name on them. That's the only flies I carry that comes close- I think. If there's another fly- it's an accident cause I or Jeremy have never tried to copy Bret's flies on purpose.

I started the topic cause someone brought it up in another topic- I restarted it to give it more clarity.

[PKw]

post removed

[D.T.]

I have thought a lot about this topic even before it was posted here on this forum. I have purchased close to 100 flies from Brett, both in his shop and over the phone. I also have made close to that many for my personal use and not quite the same quality. I have felt a little guilty about it since they are only sold in his shop and are his creation. What makes me feel this about his flies versus say copying a Prince nymph? I'm not sure except that a Prince nymph is sold in almost every fly shop and catalog in the country, and that Brett is one guy trying to make it on his own through his shop and guiding. Is one right or wrong I don't know. I was at a shop this summer on Taney that sold a imitation of his G-bug, but was called a B-bug it wasnt quite the quality but none the less it was a copy. Phil's shop was not the shop I saw it at and I was staying at Lilley's and have seen all his flies. I really like the owners of the shop in question and enjoy going there as much as Brett's and Lilley's. I thought another shop selling a copy with out Brett's permission was maybe not illegal but maybe not very respectful. I talked to Brett this summer and his wife this week (when I was ordering more flies) about tying his flies and they know individuals will copy and they don't seem to me to have a big problem with that but, another shop is over the line.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

[D.T.]

I wanted to reply to Pkw's comments in my previous post but it was already to long. When I first started fishing Taney 4 years ago I fished about two weeks a year one in the summer and one in the fall. The number of fish caught was never over 5 fish in one day, and almost always 2 to 3 fish a day with a couple 0 days. That was until I met two men from the Taney area. I met Lincoln at Lilley's the summer of 05 and Brett through his online store and at his shop that fall. Lincoln was kind enough to answer all of my questions and even went out with me not as a guide but just some one to fish with. I learned a lot from him and greatly improved my catch rate. Lincoln is a class act and the Lilley's are blessed to have him. This post wasn't about Lincoln but there is no way I could have left him out. This is in defense of Brett. I have never taken a guide trip with him mainly because I'm usually there on vacation with my family and the whole family could have a day of entertainment for what I would spend on myself with a guide. I have talked to Brett in his shop and on the water. He told me where to fish what bugs to use and how to set everything up. My usual day on the water is about 4 hrs. I have had many 40 plus fish days and nothing under a dozen, thanks to these 2 guys. I have been catching fish many times when no one else around was. I use mostly Brett's flies and few of the midge patterns from other shops around Taney. I read Brett's post on his site and one of his biggest gripes is shuffling and people landing snagged fish. I have seen him guide on several occassions and very seldom see him in the water. If he is in the water its usually only ankle deep and this is to keep the fish away from your feet and in their normal feeding lane. Brett cares about this fishery and the ethics of fishing from what I have seen, and for some one to say he shuffles for his clients is false.

[The Caddis]

I had the pleasure of fishing with Brett during September for 2 days. To answer the shuffling suggestion, we fished from a boat one day and caught over 100, how do you shuffle from a boat? Second, we had lines in the water before we stepped in and had caught a few, so again how do you shuffle from dry land?

Brett is a great guy, and the best guide I have ever used, hands down. I have previously ordered flys from Brett and used these flies in Oklahoma, New Mexico and Colorado. Guess what, they catch fish wherever you use them. I learned more about fishing, mending, and set-up from Brett than any other source.

If another shop wants to sell a copy under another name, while it may be legal, it is certainly dirty and I will not set foot in that shop.

just my $.02

[Jeff House]

To the gentleman that stated Brett's clients catch fish due to his shuffling technique, I think you should refrain from making statements based on rumors instead of fact. You may be jealous of his fishing skills ( I sure am ) and try and tell yourself that he has to be shuffling to catch that many more fish than you do, but believe me he doesn't! If you fish Taney at all you have probably seen Brett below the dam with clients and 90% of the time he and his clients are not even in the water. One of Brett's biggest peeves is shufflers and he will tell you so. I have fished with Brett twice in the time that I've known him and I can tell you from experience he does not use any method of shuffling to assist his clients in catching fish. Brett is one hell of a fisherman who will use every bit of his knowledge to make sure his clients have a good trip (as I'm sure all of the other guides on the lake do) and this is why his clients catch so many fish.

[Phil Lilley]

Well... this wasn't supposed to go in this direction. And we were just talking about sensoring the forum on another thread.

Even if PKw were to have seen this in person, I don't think it would be appropriate to post it. There have been comments in the past about certain guides and issues with drift boats as well as power boats but never any names. This is personal and I'm unconfortable with the implications.

I would think if we took every guide on the lake, post their name here and had everyone take pot shots at him (or her) there'd be shots from both sides. But that shouldn't happen here.

[Leonard]

Is this a copy or not??

Everyone know a the slumpbuster... (John Barr)

is these a copy of it or not??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Leo...inesquirrel.jpg

No weight in it at all... no cone head no tinsel...

it does have a TMC200R hook... it does have pine squirrel.. and this one have antron dubbing for the belly...

would this be the same or not??? maybe a modified version of it

[Phil Lilley]

Look's good to me.

[Terry Beeson]

I'm not the administrator of this forum but I'M not comfortable with that post either, Phil... I agree with you totally...

It's one thing for me to say something about Leonard and his "dog whistle" he uses to call up his pet monster browns... We all (hopefully) know I'm just blowin' and there is no dog whistle... But it's another to make serious accusations of illegal activities and name names...