Presidential Visit?

[Phil Lilley]

The muslim's I've met were very passionate people, family oriented and hard working. One guy converted to Christianity and became just as passionate about Christ. This was back in the mid 70's.

Anyhow- looking at the US from a 3rd world view, you can see why many are cinical about the west. They see all the west as "christian" and they see the porn, crime, corruption, hypocrisy. They know history and see again the killing in the name of God. It's understandable how they feel and why they want to kill us. We are the great satan.

But talk to missionaries who live among the people in Iran and Iraq and you'll find they forgive easily if they see in the flesh Christians who are truely living out a life of sacrifice, risking their lives to bring Christ's love to them.

[Thom]

I almost decided to quit commenting on this forum because of the general lumping of all groups such as the dem this and liberals that. I don't know why folks think if you group folks under a slam name it gives some credibility to your comments. Some of the recent comments recently has restored my faith though.

I served as on Missionary teams in Africa, Mexico and other places outside the US. They always were amazed at the governmental corruption that existed here and the violence in our cities. I thought how about your country but they looked to us as a model.

Just for the record very few Democrats ever said cut and run. It makes good election rethoric but isn't so. If you want to listen to Rush he will tell you that they have. There are many plans that closely resemble what we are doing with the constitutional congressional oversight which doesn't exist now. Many of those veterans and patriots are just concerned at the lack of oversight and utter waste of resourses in the war effort. The investigations of the Halluburtion was just the tip of the iceberg of the concerns. The chairman of the setting comittees would not even let the issue get out of committee. Harry Truman got elected because he questioned simular descrepency that were far less expensive.

Democrats also support the troops. Not with just bumper stickers and rethoric. I personally collected money for Christmas bundles, body armor before it was endorsed and letter campaingns of thankssent to Iraq. I never sit in a resturant where a service man is seated and let him pay for his check. The largest donation I ever received was outside of a union hall where most of the stickers said McCaskil. Yes I received donations for this tangible from my Republicians friends also. Never heard any of them say they didn't support the troops. By the way i understand that only two of our legislative representives have sons or daughters on acitve duty. I am proud to say that his is my Representative Todd Akin.

I also know Muslems that are American citizens and do not subscribe to the kill language that is quoted out of context in some of the other parts of this thread. If you read the old testament there is simular language if quoted out of context of the New Testament and the forgiving love that Jesus taught to us. Jesus also said of those who would be cast out in the judgement that they would perish in a lake of fire. By the way that is His authority and He will take care of it. My job is just to warn others of the empending peril.

My suggestion is this. Democracy has spoken. Lets not pre-judge either our President or congress before they have a chance to work together. We might be pleasantly surprised. I can see a win / win cooperation as the best solution for both parties. Reagan (a conservative Republician) and Tip O'neal (labeled an east coast wild eyed liberal) did it before and I believe that we can do it again if we put name calling partisan politics last and America first.

Let's pray for our President and the elected congress to work together to achieve the best solution to the crisis in Iraq and Afganistan.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Al Qaeda, and Bin Laden in particular, have never had any affection for Iraq.

I think they have an affection for any country that is predominately Muslim, its what they feel needs to be protected.

Thom, like it or not Murtha wasn't alleged to want to "Cut and Run",this is his stance, he is also supported by Pelosi who has waffled, but has said she believes they should leave on more than one occasion.

I don't think that our operations overseas in our defense should be a political matter nor a check earning job for unqualified Journalism Majors, but unfortunatly thats not the way it is and our troops, and our success suffers for it.

[Al Agnew]

Wayne, I don't buy your assertion that we've wiped out a bunch of al Qaeda people in Iraq. I've never seen any sources that put any kind of a number or percentage figure on how many of the people we've killed were foreign terrorists and how many were home grown Iraqis. Everything I've read points to most of the people who have been causing the trouble in Iraq being Iraqis. Like I said before, there were very few, if any, al Qaeda people in Iraq during Saddam's reign because he didn't trust them in his own country, and the Iraqis who have been fighting us since Saddam went down are doing so because we are in their country, not because they wanted us dead beforehand. If they are potential terrorists who would attack us in our own country, chances are we made them so.

And before gonefishin or anybody else characterizes me as not wanting to fight terrorists...that's the whole point. That's who we SHOULD be fighting. I'm all for taking it to the terrorists on their own ground. I'm just not at all convinced that's what we're doing in Iraq.

Cut and run...a great sound bite term for any idea that means setting some sort of a time line for getting out of Iraq, but it sounds like getting out as soon as possible at any cost. I don't think the vast majority of Democrats are calling for that. And I don't think setting a definite time line is a good idea, either. But, maybe the truest and scariest thing in Zakaria's article was the simple statement that we cannot politically (nor economically) sustain present operations in Iraq indefinitely. If there was real, tangible progress in Iraqi security, I think the people of America would support doing whatever it took to finish the job. But ask yourself this...is Iraq as a whole any safer and more secure now than it was 2 years ago? Is Baghdad? Geez, if both the U.S. and the Iraqi government can't secure the capital, something ain't going right. You don't have to believe that the dreaded media are ignoring the good things that are happening...the simple fact is that the number of BAD things that are happening is rising. A year or more ago, the Bush administration asserted that the escalating violence was the last desparate gasp of the terrorists. Well, it sure is a LONG last gasp.

[MTM]

There's one thing we had all best be thinking about. They hit us once and will do it again if given the chance. They can be wrong 100 times with no effect. We can't be wrong at all. Remember that when you think about things. Ron

[gonefishin]

And before gonefishin or anybody else characterizes me as not wanting to fight terrorists...that's the whole point. That's who we SHOULD be fighting. I'm all for taking it to the terrorists on their own ground. I'm just not at all convinced that's what we're doing in Iraq.

Al: I said I wasnt going to say anything else on this subject but I think the above quote deserves a reply. I have never called or characterized you as anything. I dont know you well enough to charatize you as anything negative. I dont agree with you on this subject and think you are probably young and misguided but just because we disagree on a subject doesnt mean I dislike or disrespect you in any way. I could meet up with you on the water sometime and have a good time visiting and fishing.

As to my use of the words 'dems' it is just a abbreviation; like red or blue state. In my life I have voted Democrat, Republican and Independent. I am a swing voter and I vote for who I think is the right person for the job.

In the case of this election I am upset with the current democrats because I feel they put the security of our country and our troops in jeapordy just to gain political favor, I think the press helped them with this and I belive both of them to be WRONG for doing that. I would be upset with anyone who pulled this kind of stunt regardless of political affiliation because I believe the security of our country and troops is deadly serious and therefore, should not be fooled around with.

Anyway I just wanted to clear the air on that.

[gonefishin]

There's one thing we had all best be thinking about. They hit us once and the will do it again if given the chance. They can be wrong 100 times with no effect. We can't be wrong at all. Remember that when you think about things. Ron

Exactly right Ron. They did it before and they will do it again. I am afraid next time will be really bad. Unlike some people in our country I see no percentage in being a standing target. To me our only reasonable option is to hunt them down, hold them by the nose and kick their backsides where ever we find them.

I dont know about you but it embarasses me to hear people say that the terrorists are beating us. I mean come on....we havent even lifted one finger or our military might in dealing with those people. They cant whip us if we dont let them. In the words of FDR "the only thing we have to fear is fear it's self" and unfortunatley some people either seem to be or would have us running scared.

I think they have an affection for any country that is predominately Muslim, its what they feel needs to be protected.

Thom, like it or not Murtha wasn't alleged to want to "Cut and Run",this is his stance, he is also supported by Pelosi who has waffled, but has said she believes they should leave on more than one occasion.

I don't think that our operations overseas in our defense should be a political matter nor a check earning job for unqualified Journalism Majors, but unfortunatly thats not the way it is and our troops, and our success suffers for it.

Wayne you nailed it right on the head.

This is a perfect example of what I was saying to Al earlier. You and I were at complete odds on the Stem Cell initative but never got nasty with each other. Now here we are in complete agreement on a different subject. Just because people dont agree on something doesnt mean they have to be enemies.

[jeff]

In the case of this election I am upset with the current democrats because I feel they put the security of our country and our troops in jeapordy just to gain political favor, I think the press helped them with this and I belive both of them to be WRONG for doing that. I would be upset with anyone who pulled this kind of stunt regardless of political affiliation because I believe the security of our country and troops is deadly serious and therefore, should not be fooled around with.

How did they put the security of the troops and the nation in jeopardy? The democrats have passed no legislation and have had little or no influence on policy, and the press only does a 30-second blurb about Iraq at the top of the evening news.

I think they have an affection for any country that is predominately Muslim, its what they feel needs to be protected.

There was no affection before the war. The ties have been created by the war and occupation. They aren't siding as much with the Iraqi's, as against us. Al Qaeda couldn't care less about the Iraqi government or people, they just want to kill Americans.

[ColdWaterFshr]

I'll be the first to say it. I think we need to get out, and get out now.

OR

Call up the draft and quadruple our troop #'s there and get the job done right. This would never happen though.

If we can't do the job right, we have no business trying to do it in half-measures.

Our servicemen have all my gratitude and support. But this has been a mismanaged war for far too long now.

[ColdWaterFshr]

Before you start typing what a tragedy it would be to leave 25 million people high and dry, consider this . . .

Where would our country be today if it wasn't allowed to have its civil war, bloody as it was?

In Iraq, we are little more than referee's in a game without rules. The "front line to the war on terror", should be scouring the mountains in search of Osama, and pinpoint assasinations of radical clerics and leaders (EVERYwhere) who wish us harm.