Snake Id Help Needed

[Feathers and Fins]

Heh I could have fun if more people on the site liked or knew about snakes I have a few pictures of king cobras eating pieball ball pythons and coral snakes eating other snakes. always fun to freak snake lovers out.

[Wayne SW/MO]

The markings are consistent with a timber rattler. The light links between the black stripes are a give away, IMO. It appears to be young and shedding which means it's senses were probably compromised on a hot day which means he might have been blind and not sensing heat very well.

[jdmidwest]

Young snakes have different colors than adults. Temps don't really bother rattlesnakes, they will move any time they have too. Like you said, he was hiding under a spot you created and decided to move when he sensed your presence.

That copper in the pattern looks like maybe a pygmy rattler. Not many around and that one would be about full grown.

[Al Agnew]

Dang, I don't have my Snakes of Missouri book with me out here in Montana, but in comparing this to pictures of all the possibilities so far suggested, I don't think it's any of them. This snake appears to have light bands, with black spots connected to those light bands on the upper sides, against a darker background, and with no spots on lower sides. The kingsnakes both have dark bands or spots against a light background, with other dark spots on the lower sides. The pigmy rattler is the same...dark spots or bands against a light background with other dark spots on lower sides, and so is the timber rattler. This snake just doesn't have a pattern that fits any of them. It could be a juvenile of any one of a number of species, but I looked at the juvenile markings of the kingsnakes and the black rat snake, and they don't fit either. I'm mystified.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Yeah looking closer it has the right color combinations for a rattler, but they're in the wrong configuration.

[Feathers and Fins]

Neonates have different coloration than adults depending on environmental factors, I have had Timbers that were so light and missing markings no book would ID them same for Pigmys. Also temperature has a large effect on young. Aberrant patterns were actually a fad for a while and it only took a little manipulation by the breeder in temperature during incubation both on egg bearing and live bearing to create it. We had some Egyptian Cobras come in gravid (pregnant) that dropped out some very interesting pattern in the young ( striping ) a typical neonate is just plain brownish yellow some with speckling but these were beautifully patterned.

Lots of factors on young snakes, I do wish I still had all my pictures of the ones I breed to show how many different variations are possible.

[Flyfsh]

I have seen lots of adult Pigmy Rattlers being raised in Butler Holler. I have seen 2 adults in the last 3 years no less.

Thats what it looks like to me.

Jim

[Flyfsh]

_{I remember reading recently that the little Ring Neck snakes. There are a hudge number of different varities. Have them on our place along with all the others in the Ozarks.}

_Jim

[Al Agnew]

Yeah, FF, that's what I'm thinking, some kind of juvenile color variation of whatever species it is. Wish the picture was just a little clearer so we could at least tell for sure whether the scales had keels. Scale pattern looks like it could possibly be a rattler, but hard to tell.

[Feathers and Fins]

The one I keep leaning toward most is a Western Pigmy Rattler, the patterning is correct for it and if as it appears it is in shed would account for dullness and enability to see the dorsal coloration. Side pattern is also correct as is coloration, No rattles visable is not out of the question my biggest had a habit of breaking off rattles most she ever had was 4 and this was a girl kept in captivity.

Its driving me nuts as I have the gut instinct it is and cant prove it and I kept and bread and worked with litteraly thousands of Pigmys. I want to see the entire snake damit!!! lol