Onsr Comments

[tanvat]

Alex, just to be clear, I've got nothing against anyone who lives down there and who might totally disagree with me re the rivers. I grew up in south central Mo. in the Osage River hills and half my family has the same thought process as a lot of the ONSR area locals - those guys are the same folks has half my family. All the federal goverment takeover UN one-world government conspiracy theory nonsense is a way to easily conceptualize and explain the feeling that you don't control your own life. Of course, its not a nefarious UN or some other such conspiracy that is the issue or the real problem, but it is an easy way to make sense of things. That does not make people bad, just oftentimes wrong - a modern day flat earth society. But we are all wrong from time to time; does not make us bad people, just wrong on a particular issue.

I talked to a number of folks last night who disagreed with me completely but we had a civil conversation even though a lot of the "facts" are often local legend instead of on the ground reality. And, in the end, the fallback position is usually some pretty crazy conspiracy theories; Ocahms' Razor has not made it to Shannon County. But, if you seek out common ground and don't go into it looking for a fruitless, counterproductive fight, you can have a constructive dialogue. For instance, I had a pretty long discussion with one guy in particular who lives down there and he disagreed with me wholeheartedly re managment options. But, you know what, he had a really great idea - require motorboats to have a park permit; Park Service make money off canoes, so why not make some money of jets and use some of that to fund enforcement. And it might keep some of the yahoos off the river in favor of people who are more respectful of the rivers and other users. That is a reasonable idea. I had not thought of that. We both love the river but disagree on some details. Thats it; no conspiracy theory needed.

Probably time to let this rest; nothing more to say that hasn't already been said. Time to find time to go fishing.

[ColdWaterFshr]

awhuber - are you an outfitter? and I'd like to hear your opinion on all the illegal roads, trails, and access points that have popped up over the last 30 years. And your opinion on jet-boats above Pulltite. And on ATV use around Cedargrove and Flying W and RV's setting up at Parker, and on the mass trail rides around Eminence. I honestly don't care if a Wilderness area at Big Springs happens or not, but the rest of the stuff I do care about.

[ColdWaterFshr]

There wasn't 1000 people there last night. I'd say closer to 300.

[awhuber]

awhuber - are you an outfitter? and I'd like to hear your opinion on all the illegal roads, trails, and access points that have popped up over the last 30 years. And your opinion on jet-boats above Pulltite. And on ATV use around Cedargrove and Flying W and RV's setting up at Parker, and on the mass trail rides around Eminence. I honestly don't care if a Wilderness area at Big Springs happens or not, but the rest of the stuff I do care about.

I am not an outfitter, i am someone who moved my family and business here after 40 years of coming down here most weekends.

We might have some difference of opinion on what is an illegal road, trail or access point, however the current superintendants compendium already addresses most of you above concerns. You may not know that Parker is one of the listed camp spots.

Sure would like to meet you next time you are down here and we could compare notes and have a pint of something from Piney River Brewing.

[awhuber]

There wasn't 1000 people there last night. I'd say closer to 300.

That is what Bill Black told me had signed in.

[ColdWaterFshr]

That is what Bill Black told me had signed in.

Wow. sure didn't seem like that many people at all.

Were you one of the speakers? Maybe the big bearded dude wearing a tan shirt and pants? There was a couple of local-yocals that spoke that I sort've agreed with, and he was one of them. I tend to agree that enforcement is the big challenge with managing the ONSR and so any discussion of proposed changes when they can't even enforce whats already on the books, then whats the point? Another young tall kid from Salem said much the same.

Would like to meet you too and share a beer some time. Big Piney is some good stuff.

[awhuber]

Wow. sure didn't seem like that many people at all.

Were you one of the speakers? Maybe the big bearded dude wearing a tan shirt and pants? There was a couple of local-yocals that spoke that I sort've agreed with, and he was one of them. I tend to agree that enforcement is the big challenge with managing the ONSR and so any discussion of proposed changes when they can't even enforce whats already on the books, then whats the point? Another young tall kid from Salem said much the same.

Would like to meet you too and share a beer some time. Big Piney is some good stuff.

No I didnt speak at this one. As to the atvs at welch. If you are talking on the hospital side they shoul not be there as that road is closed at Hwy K. Now across from the spring I can legally drive my truck there an atv can ride county rds, too. Shannon county rd k-385 that goes through MDC property . Check out their map "lower Ozarks" for more legal access. The nps says they are not going to close county rds. (they cant).

[ColdWaterFshr]

Is this a county road?

Is the road that goes along the river from Cedargrove up to Parker -- is that a county road? The whole area around Cedargrove might as well be classified as an ATV park.

I don't have any problem with ATV's on county roads, but when you see them on gravel bars and in the river and on the spaghetti-bowl network of trails that seem to be all over the place now--- that makes me crazy. And people camping at Tan Vat and big creek and driving just as far as their vehicle will take them. Its out of hand, don't you think?

And there's no good reason for jet boats above Akers in my opinion. Or even above Pulltite. seasonal or not.

[awhuber]

Is this a county road?

Is the road that goes along the river from Cedargrove up to Parker -- is that a county road? The whole area around Cedargrove might as well be classified as an ATV park.

I don't have any problem with ATV's on county roads, but when you see them on gravel bars and in the river and on the spaghetti-bowl network of trails that seem to be all over the place now--- that makes me crazy. And people camping at Tan Vat and big creek and driving just as far as their vehicle will take them. Its out of hand, don't you think?

And there's no good reason for jet boats above Akers in my opinion. Or even above Pulltite. seasonal or not.

Is this a county road?

Is the road that goes along the river from Cedargrove up to Parker -- is that a county road? The whole area around Cedargrove might as well be classified as an ATV park.

I don't have any problem with ATV's on county roads, but when you see them on gravel bars and in the river and on the spaghetti-bowl network of trails that seem to be all over the place now--- that makes me crazy. And people camping at Tan Vat and big creek and driving just as far as their vehicle will take them. Its out of hand, don't you think?

And there's no good reason for jet boats above Akers in my opinion. Or even above Pulltite. seasonal or not.

Cedar to parker is an abandoned countyrd but is a numbered nps rd. I' with ya on keeping them on the rd. The camp site at big creek is listed as a drive to camp site located near the restored town of cedar grove. Camping is prohibited at tv. I dont see jets above pulltite as a problem. In my 40+ yrs of floating I have seen 2 jets between Pultite and Cedarin season (other than food conditions) I dont think jets should be above cedar And I have only seen 1 up there, just a few years ago.

[awhuber]

The road @ flying is an old ford thats goes over to the old school house. Ive talked with folks who taught there and at parker school house. ah what it must have been like to attend those schools.