No Fishing in the Hatchery Outlets

[Leonard]

John..

I got that walleye...

In the run between rebar and big hole... it was about 4:30am.. no water running (later Oct).... and a white woolly.. it was 5 1/2lbs.... and heres a big kicker.... when I fillet it I check the the stomach content... 5 big sculpins (any where from 1 3/4-3 in).... he was have a hey day... and yes he was Very,Very fat!!

Warning.... I did ask a agent, all walleyes caught in Missouri must be 20 inches.... so even if you catch a 18in out of taney.. well you know what to do...

STOMP THE HELL OUT OF IT... TO GET 2in...

[Brian K. Shaffer]

As Phil wrote in the beginning of this thread - chute 3 is the major issue area. I attempt to tell every single fisherman or woman or child.. that if they fish above the present lake level that they could receive a ticket.

I choose to walk out into this area.. and I expect to see it all fall/winter cause the cable is where it is.

Most of the time, they move. Sometimes they buck up and say something out of the ordinary. Perhaps I stared (glared) too long at some people after I talked with them.. and they moved into the river area only to kick fish up cause they cant see them anymore.

Sickning... and it makes my blood boil.

The idea of shooting fish in a barrel comes to mind, which isnt really new to Taneycomo. BUT this area needs to be closed off during spawn or the MDC will get fish that are way too tired and abused by man to give them what they want - eggs & milt that they gather from the most natural area of spwaning fish on Taney.

Sometimes this sport really is saddened by our own, due to under-education.

( or the under educated fisherman who could care less.. and thats even worse )

Brian

[lostsurfer311]

Leonard

All walleyes caught must be 15 inches in length unless otherwise stated for the fishery unless you catch it between febuary 20 and april 14 then there is a special regulation for that.

[Leonard]

Thanks Lostsurfer...

I really couldnt remember 14,15, or 20... But I honestly thought he said 20...

[jscheetz]

Hey Phil,

Maybe we need to do some sort of petition to get the attention of the MDC? Maybe if there were enough fisherman engaged in asking for the C&R area they would listen? I think as everyone has said that these fish are too vulnerable and frankly fairly easy to catch in the fall even if you are not the greatest fisherman in the world, so what would it hurt if the first mile was C&R. So sign me up - let me know if I can help.

JS

[Phil Lilley]

I think clubs like FFF and TU could get behind it in the beginning and then a drive - we might see something in the near future. But first, we need to sit down with MDC and make sure it's even possible... I'm not for fighting a fight that's impossible to win.

[flyman]

I think people simply need to be better educated, and yes, they need clear cut rules. How many times have you not had a place to park so you park down the road and make your way up the trail, find a good place to fish and fish there whithout seeing any signs. I have countless times and when I first started fishing at Taney I only knew not to fish where the signs where marked "NO FISHING" and I knew the slot limit rules. I did not know about the lake level rules at first until fly fishing became an addiction and I started going every weekend .

When I first started out I found outlet 2 by accident on my own and caught fish there! I spent many fishless days until I fished outlet 2 when I was just starting out. Then ended up going to outlet three cause I thought, "Hey, this is the same thing just less people".

I have now since then moved on to more challenging fishing spots on my own, but not becuase it was against the rules or thought it was unethical, I didn't know, I just moved on to other fishing spots because I wanted a greater challange because I have learned more.

My point is I think we need clearer rules. Maybe have more signs on the walkway for those that are hiking up. Also, instead of the water level rule just say "no fishing outlets", or make fishing outlets restricted during the spawn. The boulder idea is good to! The water level rule is pretty vague in my opinion espcially when your new and you see others doing it. Those are all things that can't neccessarily be done on our own but one thing we CAN do is TEACH!

I suggest starting a beginner thread on this forum that describes the basics of fishing taneycomo, what is not ethical behavior such as shuffling, etc. and some topics to help the new fly fisher learn. Maybe if people knew how and where to fish to be successful and what is unethical they wouldn't resort to unethical practices. We all have things to learn and we all have things to teach.

Maybe we can start a new thread and we can all pitch in and educate people. Submit some of our own "articles" on how and where to catch fish and some useful info such as line mending. I know I can alway learn more myself! Is this ok with you Lilley? What do you guys think? Sorry for the long post.

P.S. The first mile idea is GREAT! I'll sign it.

[Leonard]

IMHO!!!

I think the first mile of fishing is a great idea of catch and release.....

<<<<<<<<<<<< BUT >>>>>>>>>>

Then look at all the dead fish that would start showing up in the water..

Yes it would give the much larger fish something to eat.. to an extent.. Unless barbless hook was applied...

then if they got use to eatting the dead fish (flesh)... what would you be able to catch them on??

Also... how "over populated" would it get...

I mean if ever fish you caught HAD to be released... then I believe the population of fish would multiply 10 folds... you wouldnt be able to walk around in the water..

Heres a thought...

Maybe during the spawn (for rainbows and browns) that C&R should be inforced.. with all hooks must be barbless... with no fishing outlets added...

but... again... the problem comes up..

what if you over play a fish and it cannot be revived... what do you do with it???

My 3 biggest graps in the trophy area..

1st.. seeing dead fish on the bottom

2nd.. shuffling..

3rd.. trying to snag fish at the end of a drift in chute 2..

[Phil Lilley]

You can forget the barbless thing... powers-that-be in MDC believe barbless is a cosmetic issue, not a health issue. There are no studies proving barbless rules help save trout to the point to make that a law- that's what they will say.

5% of fish caught and released using flies will die - that's the stats quoted by MDC. You will have dead fish regardless what the rules are. C&R on Taney, in my opinion, will not make a significant difference in the number of dead fish. Natural animal preditors kill more fish than anglers in the first mile (herons, kingfishers, otters). I'd say, with the water not running, >99% of the trout are caught and released by anglers presently.

Overpopulation- people were worried about the regs back in 1995 when they were proposed because they thought trout would overpopulate the upper 3.5 miles and die of starvation (seriously- that's what they thought). I think that has been put to rest... trout will naturally go where they can survive and survive well.

And lastly, rainbows spawn twice a year- fall/winter and spring. I don't see why you would make any special conditions during any spawn sinply because a trout spawn on Taney is 99% unsuccessful.

New topics - go for it. I'm been in the education business using ozarkanglers.com since 1997... I welcome all the help I can get!!

[John Smoot]

A C&R area can be modeled after a sucessful 1 that already exists. Say, the San Juan in northern New Mexico. The trout will not over-populate. There will not be dead fish floating everywhere. Some fish will die due to mishandling...and the predator/scavengers will eat them. So, even if you accidently kill 1 in the C&R area, you cannot take it out...no exceptions. Don't like that, fish somewhere besides C&R.

That last statement in the previous paragraph summarizes why a C&R ultimately works...if you have designs on keeping a trout, you simply will not fish in C&R. The people who do not wish to keep a trout will be the only fishermen fishing in the C&R. And as arrogant as this sounds, that group is largely made up of people who know how not to kill a trout while catching and releasing. That is why a C&R works so well.

I really don't want to sound condescending or arrogant, but, I don't think I have ever killed a trout using a fly rod. Seriously. In over 12 years and probably way over a thousand caught and released, I have never released a trout that I would of even suspected might die. But, I don't let them flop on the rocks. I don't pick them up and squeeze them like a tube of toothpaste (worse yet with a rag!). I only use a net on fish approaching 20 inches or more...the rest are simply released by using my fingers or, 'tweezers' attached to my fly vest, to grip the fly and twist/pull it loose. I do crimp all of my barbs (they don't tend to get stuck in things like the net, your hat, clothing). I do not hold them out of the water hardly at all, unless a photo is wanted, and then just for a couple of seconds. I do not play them until they're ready to simply float belly up. It's just a mindset: from the time I feel "I've won the battle" and will get them to hand, my primary concern is to NOT HARM THE FISH. It's really not difficult. And, my experience tells me that this will be the type of person fishing in a C&R area, and almost exclusively.

A couple of issues I can see coming up is 1. what about the occasional other very desirable species (walleye) that a person can hook in the C&R...keep it, it ain't a trout! And, issue 2. what if you've just landed the potential state record? Hmmm. Tougher answer here. Any ideas?