Where do You Fish for these Species?

[jim murphy]

This is the most wanted information out there.

Unfortunately, some of the areas I used to fish have become overcrowded. What is more disgusting is the trash left behind by such inconsiderate, worthless individuals, to stinking lazy to pick up after themselves, and still want to know where the fish are biting. Fly fishermen are as much to blame for this as bait and conventional tackle fishermen.

Why should we, those who care about the areas we fish, freely give this information out?

Am I above everyone for being so stand offish, Hades NO. I treat everyone the same way they treat me; if you poop on me, do not expect me to very open with information or invitations.

Too many people have ruined opportunities for others, because of their behavior and lack of respect of public and private property. I get no enjoyment from picking up trash that others left behind in some of the areas I fish. In fact, I picked up 27 Old Milwalkee Light beer cans and the 30 pack box they came in today on a piece of private property that I have access to fish , luckily the property owner knew who did it and I can still access his property , but do not expect me to give out directions :ph34r: .

And some people wonder why I am so tight lipped with information.

jim

[Flysmallie]

That's exactly why it's near impossible to get private access. If you can carry a 30 pack into a fishing spot you should have no problem carrying the trash out.

Why should you take a chance of loosing your spot by allowing others to trash it.

[Phil Lilley]

Venting is ok but I think you're lashing out at the wrong people. No one is asking you to give out your secret or favorite spot. Bill Butts created this forum to try to spir on educational conversation, not to draw out complaints about what most of us dislike as much as you. 99% of us pick up trash on the banks I bet. It's the 1% you're after.

[jjtroutbum]

100% agree Phil about the venting and the rest of your post as well.

However, I've been in other forums that had a soap box or Rant, Topic/catagory . To allow members to discuss or vent those things that all fisherman find see or have disdain for and allow Mods to move questionable posts that fit too.

Maybe OAF needs one with a clear message that distasteful posts will be deleted. Not that our members seem to have a problem with language or anything.

"even tho Mrsducky seems to have some strange thoughts lately. "

If this is the wrong place for my post/suggestion feel free to move edit or delete this as in all or any of my posts.

Caring OAF bumper sticker owner,

JJ

[Phil Lilley]

Actually I thought after I posted...

Jim should post his spots on the forum because 99% of the people who read the forum would help him pick up trash at those sites put there by people who don't read the forum... probably by people who can't read at all!! We all feel the same way as Jim on this matter (trashing access sites and private property).

I didn't mean to say Jim has no right to vent... it appeared that Jim was venting AT the person who created the forum (BB) for suggesting that every should give up their spots, which I don't think that's the intention of the forum at all.

[Bill Butts]

Jim Murphy wrote......

"Fly fishermen are as much to blame for this as bait and conventional tackle fishermen."

and,

Why should we, those who care about the areas we fish, freely give this information out?

Jim~

There is no doubt you were still hot under the collar from having to pick up all those beer cans, and it is frustrating to have a nice "honey hole" that isn't fished by a lot of folks get trashed by littering bums.

However, I totally disagree with you that fly fishermen are as much to blame for littering our streams as other fishermen. You know that I have been part of the fly fishing fraternity for many years, and I can honestly say I have never observed even one fly fisherman intentionally or unintentionally leaving trash behind on the river bank anywhere in the country. I'm sure it happens some times, but it would be extremely rare. Your comment appeared very convicting toward your fellow fly fishermen.

This should never be construed that fly fishermen are somehow better people, but I think most fly fishermen would agree that they generally have a better understanding, respect and appreciation for the outdoor resources than the average fishermen that you encounter along the banks of Ozarks streams. As you explained in your disgust, you took the time to pick up the discarded leftovers, which I applaud. I have also seen countless fly fishermen and paddlers do the same "trash collection" over the years. It would only be right to recognize other respectful conventional tackle fishermen and paddlers for their conservation efforts, too.

When I think of fishermen that notoriously trash our stream banks, Spring White Bass fishing immediately comes to mind. Countless times in MO, AR and OK I have seen bank fishermen leave behind all kinds of trash, and yes I have carried out my share, too. These enemies of our beautiful Ozarks have no respect for the resources, and don't stop adversely impacting our resources with just their litter. I've seen many of them take more than their legal limits of fish, and some proudly hold up strings of shorter-than-legal, out-of-season smallmouth. I've even asked several of them if they're from the area or far from home, and they are nearly always close to home. It's very rare to have good cell phone signal in a river valley, or to get back to the vehicle in time to even attempt to notify the MDC folks.

Why should you share some fishing spots with others?

First of all, remember that you work in a fly shop that caters to helping folks get started successfully in the sport. It is many times a precarious judgment call as to who you tell and with how much specific detail. I don't reveal all my spots for a variety of reasons, including private property, sensitivity to overfishing, and respect to someone who shares a special place with me.

I try to educate fellow fishermen to be resourceful by using a variety of maps, satellite images, and networking with a variety of others they can learn from. This includes online Forums.

Remember, too, that over the years you and I and about all other fishermen have at times been the benefactor of "freely given" information on fishing locations. Others have taken chances on us with the hope they were making a good decision to share their fishing spots. We can't play "secret agent" in all situations, though we should use wise discretion.

Lastly, my intention for this Forum topic was not for prying info out of unwilling folks but to bring greater general awareness of what fishery opportunities are out there that harbor Striped, Hybrid and White Bass.

It appears to me that we are making some progress in that regard.

As fishermen, we must always remember that information is and always will be a "give and take" issue. That is one great factor that makes our sport so much fun.

Bill

[jim murphy]

Though what I have written is in black and white, with the exception of the little red section; everyones interpritation is in a different shade of gray/pink. And feel free to read between the lines or into it how ever you want.

Venting off steam through this discussion/post? NO not really. Some people do not listen or pay any attention to what is being said or written, unless one gets loud and voiceful or it is directed at them. The farmer did enough venting on his son for me and took his keys away telling him that he will be riding the bus until further notice. In fact, it would not surprise me if this farmer didn't whip his kid's butt later, then set his truck up on blocks, and to top it off, take the tires and wheels off and sell them. Lets just put it this way, the farmer was more disgusted than I was over the situation.

The point is and some have appearred to miss it, is that we are losing access to areas to fish because of individuals who show no respect to others. There are people out there who feel that the areas we fish are trash recepticles, and they need to be aware that their actions are inappropriate.

Bill, you pointed out that fly fisherman are less likely to trash an area. Well, I vague to differ. Numerous times at Taneycomo, Bennett Springs, Roaring River, James River, Little Sac River, below Power Site Dam, and many others, I have seen fly fishers leave trash behind, even in the areas I have fished out West. Nine foot leader packages are not being purchased by conventional tackle fishers, nor spooled tippet material, though I do know a couple who do use it. I have seen fly fishers carry in bottles of water and food down to Taylor Shoals, on the James and leave them behind on the stream bank. Beverages in cans could go either way. Fly fishers are as much to blaim as others. In fact, there are a couple of fly fishers,who I will not EVER invite to go with me again, because of the trash they left behind. You even know one of them, I pointed it out to them and ask them to pick up their trash, needless to say it was a wasted effort on my part. Now was I directing this issue straight at fly fishers, no. I was pointing out that fly fishers do their fair share of leaving trash behind.

The Spring white bass run is one of the most fished times of the year. And all people care about during that time is where are they biting? Well, people need to be more aware of the trash issue more so than were to go.

Bill, Yes, I do hang out Backcountry Outfitters, a fly fishing specialty store, my rant is not on its behalf. Should people in the fly fishing community not respect me because I made a post about the trash in an area that I fish? NO, I am sure if they were in my shoes, they would feel the same way. I freely share information with others, some more, some less, and its not any different than any other fly shop.

The main point of my rant, as it has been labeled, is that we are going into a heavily fished time of year and this issue, trash being left behind, needs to be pointed out. Was my initial post directed toward Bill, no, He just happens to be the forum leader for this section for temperate bass, which everyone seems to be starting to focus on.

People need to be aware of the problem of our access areas being trashed by others.

jim

[Dave Cook]

I'd like to praise these gentlemen expressing themselves on this post.

I think these have been great posts to read to remind everyone about respect for the evironment, private & public propery, other fishermen and ethics.

This post is a good example about different points of view being respected by others using this forum. And after reading each person's statements, you can come to the conclusion that those expressing differing points of view seem to share the same values. Something to think about.

Jim, I would not consider you being tight lipped after you shared your thoughts on this. Several good topics came out of this that could start many other threads.