New State Park?

[jdmidwest]

On 10/27/2015, 7:50:01, Gavin said:

Mark, I have a trailer too. New full hookup sites were planned for Montauk. Haven't been down there since last Thanksgiving to check on progress.

Plans are out for bid now.  30 new sites below lower electric sites and the turd ponds.  The area that used to be for large group camping till the park service ran out of money to mow it.

Which brings me to another question.  I seem to remember a short time ago that the MO State Park Program was having a shortage of money.  Now they are building a luxury camp at Camp Zoe, adding to Montauk, and buying up land on 11 Pt.  Where is all the cash coming from?

[Al Agnew]

MDC makes payments in lieu of taxes for their properties, but DNR only makes such payments for 5 years, assuming that after that point the new park would be bringing in enough economic benefit to offset the loss of tax revenue to the county.  Seems to me that if worse came to worst, they could agree to extend those payments for a few more years if the economic development didn't pan out.

But here's the rub...

We own undeveloped land in Crawford County, with river frontage along the Meramec.  I can't imagine that Oregon County property taxes would be higher than Crawford County.  We pay about 50 cents an acre in property taxes at present.  So if we're talking the first parcel of land and assuming the same tax rate, Oregon County would stand to lose about $1250 a year after five years.  Maybe the other parcel, with the buildings on it, would be more than that.  For the sake of argument, say a total of $5000 a year.  That wouldn't be a big hit for the DNR to pay, nor would it be a huge amount of money even for a poor county like Oregon.

But, I suspect what the county commissioners are seeing is a parcel of land that could go into private development, subdivided, houses built, and all of a sudden it would be bringing in a lot more in taxes.  Of course, that would defeat the purpose of why DNR would be buying the land, and probably defeat the purpose of why the sellers want to sell it to DNR.  It would be good for the county coffers IF it happened that way, but there's no guarantee.  

It would seem that even a very modest development by the DNR would eventually result in more than $5000 a year in economic activity for the county, but it would take a more popular park to bring in the kind of money that the commissioners are seeing in their mind's eye with a resort subdivision.  But on the other hand, how likely would it be that a resort subdivision would actually go over well, given relative remoteness of the land and the restrictions put on by the Wild and Scenic Rivers easement?

I'm afraid that a lot of this is the knee jerk reaction by so many in the Ozarks to ANY kind of government owning more land.  

By the way, Mark...the development along the Jacks Fork around Eminence is there because that section was left out of the ONSR.  Same thing on the Current around Van Buren.  When you look at that, and think about what a lot more of those rivers would look like if not protected, it's scary.  And I DON'T think more boat ramps along the Eleven Point are necessary, but I agree with you that in the developed campground at Greer, electric hook-ups would be a good thing.

[jdmidwest]

Not really a knee jerk reaction to the Government owning more land.  A reaction to the Government drawing more public attention to a nice little quiet area where you can go and get away.

Next thing you know, Big RV's, wifi, cell phone towers, and campers that bring the house with them and all the trimmings.  Now, the 11pt is still remote, somewhat out of reach from technology and amenities.  Those areas are disappearing in MO with the population explosion.

[Gavin]

Don't think that Missouri's population is exploding but State Parks got a good chunk from a State bond issue a couple years ago (20-60M) to spend on capital improvements thinking they intend to spend it all. Think that most of their funds come from 50% of the 1/10th cent parks and soil conservation sales tax. MDC gets 1/8th cent. State Parks gets 1/20th of a cent.

[Al Agnew]

13 hours ago, jdmidwest said:

Not really a knee jerk reaction to the Government owning more land.  A reaction to the Government drawing more public attention to a nice little quiet area where you can go and get away.

Next thing you know, Big RV's, wifi, cell phone towers, and campers that bring the house with them and all the trimmings.  Now, the 11pt is still remote, somewhat out of reach from technology and amenities.  Those areas are disappearing in MO with the population explosion.

I agree with you, but I highly doubt the county commissioners are looking at it that way, nor the other politicians getting into the act.  Their outlook is more along the lines of the more development the better.

[Brian Sloss]

The money came from a settlement with a lead mining company that polluted some land and water north of Oregon County.  It is remediation money and they talk about the issue in the articles linked to this thread. 

[Mark]

Maybe I am just being selfish, but I plan to retire in a couple years and have a small travel trailer. My days of tent camping are about over, and I would like somewhere on the Eleven Point to park the trailer occasionally, and have electricity/water/shower/restroom facility. Instead of new development, how about a renovation at Greer CG. Or Turner Mill North - which is virtually always vacant.  I understand that there use to be electric at Greer CG and vandals destroyed the boxes. But wouldn't trying it again at a developed place be cheaper than trying someplace new, and make more sense. Maybe hire a CG host to keep an eye on things. I would do a month or so tour after I retire for free electric/water/camp spot. I imagine other retirees would do the same. And wouldn't most of you rather have people using the restroom at the campground restroom or in their RV than on the gravel bars? I do think it is a shame that there is no where for elderly people with RVs to enjoy the river. Those are the types of people that won't hurt a dang bit of everyone's concern over primitive and isolated remoteness. And they own it as much as the rest of us.

[Mac's Orphan]

6 minutes ago, Mark said:

Maybe I am just being selfish, but I plan to retire in a couple years and have a small travel trailer. My days of tent camping are about over, and I would like somewhere on the Eleven Point to park the trailer occasionally, and have electricity/water/shower/restroom facility. Instead of new development, how about a renovation at Greer CG. Or Turner Mill North - which is virtually always vacant.  I understand that there use to be electric at Greer CG and vandals destroyed the boxes. But wouldn't trying it again at a developed place be cheaper than trying someplace new, and make more sense. Maybe hire a CG host to keep an eye on things. I would do a month or so tour after I retire for free electric/water/camp spot. I imagine other retirees would do the same. And wouldn't most of you rather have people using the restroom at the campground restroom or in their RV than on the gravel bars? I do think it is a shame that there is no where for elderly people with RVs to enjoy the river. Those are the types of people that won't hurt a dang bit of everyone's concern over primitive and isolated remoteness. And they own it as much as the rest of us.

Add me to the list of campground hosts...

The ground is a lot harder and further away now than it used to be at 30yrs old!

[Brian Sloss]

Mark, There has never been electric for anyone other than the camp host at Greer.  When they tried to put in a few electric sites, the copper was stolen and there was not money in the budget to buy more.  As for why the state won't just develop Greer more,  because the state does not own Greer, the US Forest Service does.  The state is not going to pay to improve their property.  Now, if you are interested in hosting at Greer, you can get water and electric and a small stipend.  Can get a little more money if you are willing to mow.  They are always having a hard time finding hosts and if you are interested, give them a call at 573-996-2153.  Last summer the first host quit 2 weeks into the gig and they could not get anyone until the middle of July.  If you are retired, I can't think of a better location to spend a summer.   I think it is the cake camp host job in Missouri.  The crowds are light compared to other campgrounds the forest service runs and a lot less bad behavior there.  The distance from town is the main complaint from previous hosts.

[Mark]

Thanks Brian, good to know. I am not retiring until may 2018 though. And still shopping for my travel trailer. Agree that it would be ideal camp host job. But I will definitely keep it in mind for retirement.

Guess I never thought it thru about the Forest Service owning Greer CG. Sure wish it was a little more developed with electric/water/shower. I know someone (probably Brian) told me on here once before about the copper being stolen from electric boxes at Greer. What a shame.