Controversial;I GUESS SO.My last post

[Guest flyfishBDS]

As one said there are two sides to every story. I'd prefer to see this tit for tat die, but there has been a continued slant here that moose is the innocent aggrieved, and the other board is the offender.

As I understand it, like SM, second hand and not having read the original comments, is that moose' original post was not written well/accurately _ such that one third party mentioned wanted his name removed.

If Moose had been around boards a bit longer, he might have understood ettiquette/code on these places, particularly where commercial type posts exist. Both this Board and Jw's are very open for commercial operators to use because none of us try to spam.

From my reading of it Moose's may have been too close to that borderline of spam though he may not have realized it as such/ its a fine line often between what someone reads as information and an ad, even though the original poster's intentions may be honorable. I know I think about the tone of my posts a lot. The Subsequent posts etc served to inflame the situation _ as did JB's original post here and ongoing discussion.

This is not a Free Speech issue, after all there are lots of things we cannot say here, because of good taste/defamation/anti-vilification laws/and our own pretty loose rules on commercial postings.

If you want to get published here or anywhere else there are certain rules/ettiquette to abide by.

That seems to have been the issue at the start here, and where it should have stayed, but the subsequent tit for tat brought in a bunch of extraneous stuff, best sorted out outside this or any other forum.

Best we get back to fishing and having fun

Cheers

Steve

[Terry Beeson]

While we may think of this as a "public forum" remember... With a couple of mouse clicks and keystrokes, Phil can take it all away... Not sure how "public" that is... But as I have said before, Phil is very tolerant in my humble opinion. But as far as I'm concerned, it is still HIS call on here.

But, alas, our Aussie friend is absolutely correct... "Best we get back to fishing and having fun..."

Amen...

(Sleeping dogs and dead horses...)

[SilverMallard]

Well, at this point, I have spoken at length with BOTH men. And, Steve, your vision of what transpired is ALMOST right. I DID read almost all of the deleted and edited posts, btw. And they both contacted ME, not vice versa. And both were cordial, polite, understanding, seeking resolution, and professional.

Moose's original "offending" post was a classy "thank you" to ALL of the guides who guided his guests written and posted on the first anniversary of his grand opening. His motive was to reach out and thank the guides for their cooperation and contributions...to acknowledge that publicly. He used his financial records of payments to put the list together. And he had no idea anyone was upset with him. The guide who was "offended" was the moderator/guide in question here...whom we all know was Jimmy Traylor. Jimmy T had guided for Moose once and had written a puff piece singing his praises on FFAM. And that was the extent of their interaction. They had not spoken for a few months since.

JT deleted that post. Moose thought he messed up and didn't post it right. He knew JW was out of the country and called JT because he is the Mod on that forum. JT told him to repost. Moose did. JT edited ALL of the list of guides out of that post. Then Moose posted a thank you about the OLN show and listed JW, another guide, and Lori Sloas for their help. And JT edited out John and Lori's names.

That's when Moose sort of "went off" over there and when John Berry came over here and posted about it.

THAT is what happened...confirmed by BOTH parties, who BOTH regret the way they handled it and can't wait until the whole thing is a distant memory. But it became a public event. So now the public needs some closure. I'm trying to provide that. Hopefully, this explanation will do that. Both of these men bring something important to different market sectors of the Ozark trout fishing scene. Both are decent fellows. NEITHER is perfect...just like the rest of us.

Now for a note of personal observation...

JT's been around here for over a decade. Moved up from TX as an "outsider" too...just like Moose. But Moose, because of the type of business he is running, made a "big splash." JT was able to ease in and learn quietly. Moose didn't have that luxury. He had rooms to fill for an entire season. And he's trying to fill the high-end traveling angler niche...WHICH WE NEED...and that carries BIG overhead, thus BIG risks and a necessary high-profile marketing presence.

But let's all stop and think about this: almost every last one of us was "the new guy" at some point in the not too distant past. And I would bet dollars to donuts that every last one of us ruffled some feathers in the early going. This region is not known for it's eagerness to embrace change OR welcome newcomers into the business community! I can recall a BUNCH of controversies and some outright cat fights involving several of the business providers in the ozarks fly fishing community that we now all consider part of the family. But being the "new guy" is TOUGH no matter who you are or how good you are about trying to play nice. We ALL made mistakes and stepped on toes in the early going. And I think we need to keep that in mind when dealing with newcomers to the scene. I think we should cut them a bit of slack and judge them on their ability to learn and adapt over the first few YEARS, instead of sitting like raptors on the branch waiting to pounce if we see them make a misstep. Maybe we could try offering some HELP instead of trying to TEACH them a lesson or "put them in their place."

And it is NEVER a good thing when a BBS moderator uses the priveleges of THAT role to address a personal matter of his/her own. I've been moderating and owning BBS's for about 12 years now. And that just isn't an acceptable way of doing the job. JT knows that. He heard it straight from me. And he agrees that he screwed that part up. The rest is between him and Moose. And that is NONE of our business. And I think they'll get it worked out. And it almost always takes two to tango. And they both know it and both feel like they made some mistakes.

This stuff happens in business. It's just part of the deal. But wise and skilled business people learn quickly to keep the ugly side of business out of the public eye. Businesses should look like a swimming duck. Above the water, the duck looks peaceful...gliding across the water effortlessly. Underwater, he's paddling like a madman. I have never met a business owner or manager who wasn't dealing with a bunch of ugliness and uncertainty and struggling to stay on top of it all. But your customers and prospective customers should never know it. And it's a compliment when they take it for granted and say things like, "Wow! You've got the dream job!" That means they are completely unaware of the down-side of what you do. And that's a GOOD thing. Unfortunately, some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you. Nobody's perfect.

[Danoinark]

Good, its done!

Dano

[Guest flyfishBDS]

"Both of these men bring something important to different market sectors of the Ozark trout fishing scene. Both are decent fellows. NEITHER is perfect...just like the rest of us." Well said!

Nice to have it done.

[Snow Fly]

We move on.

[Davy Wotton]

Amen.

Davy.

[shawncat]

And I would bet dollars to donuts that every last one of us ruffled some feathers in the early going.

Yea,I prolly do that alot........sorry Terry

Shawndawg

[Phil Lilley]

Thanks Ken. You done good.

[tippett]

Very well put Silvermallard. Let the dogs lie.

Its going to warm up this week and hopefullywe all can fish.

Stinnetti