2 Wolves Escape from Predator World in Branson West

[troutchaser]

Too true, Don.

I have a brother who lives in Southeast Idaho on the edge of a midsized city. He has dealt with wolves recently. One used his storage building to have pups, and a pack of them killed one of his hunting dogs and blinded and maimed a very expensive horse - on his property. His neighbor has had it worse - he lost a horse and several breeding dogs from his kennel. According to the Federal Agents, the wolves have been using the irrigation canals to travel great distances. Unfortunately, the canal runs along the back of my brother's 5 acre property, so the odds of this happening again are fairly good.

Neither of these men have a "deep hatred for the wolf" as some would have us believe. But when you have 4 children under the age of ten, the idea that such an animal is prowling nearby is a bit unsettling.

I would definitely call such actions described above as wreaking havoc.

I think both sides of this issue have validity and merit in their points of debate. Remember, though, that some people are fighting on both sides of this issue.

I bow hunt and fish in Idaho with my brother regularly. We both stand in opposition to portions of each side of this debate. I feel wolves should not be allowed to roam freely wherever they choose. When human lives and property are tresspassed, threatened and destroyed without provocation, these wolves do become a nuisance. However, those that wish to see the wolf exterpated in order to use Federal land for profiting enterprise should be prepared, as most conservation-minded outdoorsman are dead set against domestic livestock on wild land because they are so completely destructive. Like I said, both sides have merit. JS, you've mentioned several facts with which I agree. But Westerners don't hate wolves. Some pockets of very vocal opponents may feel this way, but they don't speak for the majority. As to my earlier statement, considering my examples above, wolves leaving protected lands IS an issue.

[skeeter]

A question for JS. How would you handle the problem of wolves inbreeding with dogs?

Have to agree with JSCHEETZ, Dogs and wolves in the wild do not cross breed under "normal" circumstances. Perhaps you were thinking of "Coydogs" ? That can cause BIG problems too. Normally skittish coyotes when crossed with domestic dogs become very bold. Had big problems with a pack of the same in S. St. Louis County about 30 years ago. Took a long, concerted effort to bring that under control as they were in a large undeveloped area surrounded by subdivisions.

[Al Agnew]

It's a good news/bad news thing. Now there are enough wolves that they are spreading out (normal dispersal of young adults trying to establish new packs and territories) and running afoul of humans. There is plenty of public, vacant (except for livestock) land available to them, but the travel corridors between such places are a real problem, since that's where they'll most likely encounter humans. So the good news is, reintroduction worked. The bad news is, it's working too well in some places.

Compound that with all the constituencies that want to have a say in the matter, from ranchers to residents in wolf territory to hunters to conservationists to animal rights idiots, and you have the makings of a train wreck. I still think it was a very worthwhile thing to reintroduce wolves to the West. But I think that now it's time for the feds to say, "Okay, wolves are here to stay, and should be managed accordingly. Keeping that in mind, it's now time for the state wildlife professionals to work with the Fish and Wildlife Service to manage them, with an eye to minimizing impacts on humans." I have no problem, at this point, with getting rid of wolves that are truly causing trouble on private land and too near towns and cities. If there are still large expanses of wild land in the general area that don't have wolves, trapping problem animals and relocating them might be worth a shot, though wolves do tend to move long distances to get back to "home" range. But if all the areas that SHOULD have wolves already have them, then wolves that are causing trouble too close to population centers are surplus animals and don't need special protection.

[troutchaser]

Well said, Al.

[jscheetz]

Well Tchaser, guess we will agree to disagree on feelings of "hatred" for wolves out west - I believe that is well documented elsewhere for those who wish to research it.

Sounds like your brother has a cool place. I can certainly see where wolves killing horses is a problem, and that will have to be dealt with, just like any animal that attacks livestock or domestic animals. Of course as my friend in MT says "Living in paradise has a price". As to your quote

But when you have 4 children under the age of ten, the idea that such an animal is prowling nearby is a bit unsettling.

I assume that there are bears in his area? And mountain lions? And Meth heads? And yet he still lives there - - interesting. I would think those things would be just as unsettling. What makes him stay? Must be some kind of balance between the fear for his family's life and the reason he is there right? So the wolves tip that balance? Hard for me to believe. Or do you think we need to do something about the bears and lions too?

When human lives and property are tresspassed, threatened and destroyed without provocation, these wolves do become a nuisance.

Good thing the local wildlife didn't have a forum to post on when your Brother carved out his little 5 acres of heaven from their homes.

I guess some people want to enjoy outdoors on their terms and have it fit into what they percieve to be their point of existence. That is why all the wolves were killed in the first place isn't it?. "Let's see, we want this cute animal, and that animal, but not those over there". So we notched out an area for ourselves playing god all the way and trying control things to our advantage. The trouble is, not everyone agrees on how it should be, so we eradicate, re-introduce, eradicate, re-introduce etc etc ad infinitum.

Who knows what the outcome will be. Hopefully we can eventually all come together on a consensus that will preserve everyone's best interest. But with the wild lands getting less and less out west the confrontations with all predators is sure to increase. Of course I always hear, "We can still have what we want and leave enough land for them". Sure - that works great - just ask the Indians.

JS

[gonefishin]

Good reasoning Al.

I asked a question earlier about interbreeding or crossbreeding of wolves and dogs. As I see it crossbreeding already is a problem. There have been numerous crossbred wolf/dogs dumped by people. Eventually they will interbreed with wolves and or other dogs. These crossbreds will carry both wolf and dog genes. Just as happened with coydogs interbreeding could be a problem. The difference being that wolfdogs could literally be a big enough problem to bite someone in the butt.

[troutchaser]

I assume that there are bears in his area? And mountain lions?

Of course. In my experience, the difference is that these animals are not as inclined to be in such close proximity with humans.

... do you think we need to do something about the bears and lions too?

Nah. I don't think we need to do anything about them. I'm not even recommending the delisting of wolves. 650 breeding pairs (in Idaho, last count) is dismally small. I don't believe opening them up to hunting at all because I think predator hunting is unethical. But any animal, whether wild or domesticated - be it a wolf, bear, lion, dog, etc. - that becomes a destructive or life threatening intruder should be removed. Whether that removal includes that animal's death depends on the immediate danger.

In the case of the wolf that whelped in my brother's out building, he called and had the Feds remove her and the pups to be relocated. He could have destroyed her and no one would have been any wiser to it, but he believes, as do I, in a greater good. A bigger picture, if you will.

As to the Indian comment, my great-great-grandmother is on the Dawes roll. I know all about this issue.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Funny, but I had some discussion about wolves with my RV neighbor this winter. He didn't seem to worry much about them, except if they chased the Moose off just before hunting season. I might add that he has lived with them his entire 72 years.

I suppose if worrying about wolves is a problem then watching the nightly news should bring one back to the real dangers.