2 Wolves Escape from Predator World in Branson West

[troutchaser]

"In North America, humans were never wolf prey, and there are almost zero recorded instances of non-rabid wolves killing humans in North America."

Al, you're right. They haven't killed, but they have attacked quite often.

"I always get a kick out of people in this part of the country who see coyotes and say they saw wolves. Trust me, when you see a wolf, if you've spent much time around coyotes, you'll know the wolf is different. "

I agree with this statement, as well. In Idaho, the opposite is true. If you've seen one, it was probably a wolf. They're much more brave. The coyotes run at the sight of trucks - they know these machines bring men with guns. You might get a glimpse of one if you see him before he sees you. That is, unless he gets caught in your dog pen eating the table scraps. (Happened to my brother while I was staying out there. Scared the holy cr@p outta me!)

[KATroutman13]

Don,

But these are all impediments to the making of a livelihood. Second, developers take into account these impediments and add them to their costs. Is this really any different than the projected loss of calves to disease or predation?

[gonefishin]

Don,

But these are all impediments to the making of a livelihood. Second, developers take into account these impediments and add them to their costs. Is this really any different than the projected loss of calves to disease or predation?

It wouldn't be such a problem if one could do something about them. If a disease is killing your livestock you can give shots or take some action to end it but with the laws protecting wolves you can do nothing but sit idly by. A person can get more time in prison for killing, (errr...sorry I forgot to sensationalize) murdering, a wolf than for murdering a human being. Go figure.

[jscheetz]

Not that you would care to know, but the issue out west concerning the wolves is not that they have been reintroduced to Federal land, but the fact that they're leaving these protected areas and wreaking havoc in other places.

Tchaser that is absolutely NOT the issue. That is the issue that gets "put on the table" at public discussions about the issue, but the issue is that there is a deep hatred for the wolf in the west. I have sat in on enough of the wolf re-introduction/ and de-listing debates to say without a doubt that it is not what the wolf is actually doing there, but rather what they represent to many of the people who see them as no more than a nuisance like a rock chuck. Plus, I see many all up in arms about the wolf killing the elk, moose, etc etc - but the numbers of predation of wolves on big "game" animals vs. people's yearly "harvest" is not even in the same ballpark. So the reality is that we just don't want to share. Whether it is ranchers wanting to run their cattle on fed lands for pennies on the dollar (known in most circles as "Welfare Ranching") or whether it is the possible decrease in numbers of animals for hunters - people have a real problem with anyone or anything messing with their own personal wants.

And you are right Al, the guys that run their cattle on the fed lands should accept that this is part of the risk, but when our government lets them do it for WAY cheaper than it would cost to "rent" private grazing rights, and then they let the cattle ruin many public mountain trout streams in the process, you really can't blame them for wanting the gov to kill all the animals they don't like. Like any wise little kid, they will just keep asking for more until someone says "NO".

JS

[gonefishin]

A question for JS. How would you handle the problem of wolves inbreeding with dogs?

[Guest]

gonefishin said:

A question for JS. How would you handle the problem of wolves inbreeding with dogs?

t

[troutchaser]

[Post Deleted]

In retrospect, I have decided to delete my original post. While it explained my very sound reasoning behind my earlier statement, I don't wish to create a hostile atmosphere in this forum.

Besides, I'm more interested in fishing than wolves, anyway.

[gonefishin]

technically "outbreeding" with dogs since they are not the same species.

Opps. Sorry. I was having an AAADD 'age activated attention deficit disorder moment'. My question should have been: "A question for JS. How would you handle the problem of wolves cross-breeding with dogs?"

[jscheetz]

Hey GF,

Good to chat with you as always Hope you are well -

Do you mean cross breeding dogs and captive wolves - creating hybrids?? I am not sure what you were asking. As to a "problem" of dogs and wolves breeding in the wild it doesn't exist. Wolves usually kill dogs as well as coyotes - they look at them as competition. A wolf pack is a pretty tight knit group so they don't normally allow outsiders to come in - even other wolves let alone another species.

JS

[Don]

Troutchaser,

No need to delete to avoid disagreement. Respectful controversy is almost a must to learn from one another from forums like these. Many others have turned over stones that I have not had and have had the opportunity to explain those situations on this forum.

To agree to disagree and set aside some induvidual's egos without overbearing criticism is a classy way to talk, teach, learn, and etc. Acceptance of many other's postings in the same way is the wise side of the coin.

Think about it.....Don

"All I know is that I know nothing." Socrates