Hoops to jump thru to be a fishing guide

[Patricks on the White]

Phil:

Seems like St. Louis Parks and Recreation put together the Flaming Gorge trip. I still recall one event in particular. After rowing for two days, I hiked upriver with Tommy Hargrove and another guy for some leisure time fishing. Turned into the equal of The Bataan Death March. We fished until dark and were hustling out trying to beat sheer darkness when suddenly I heard the rattle of a "you know what". Decisions, decisions. Do we plunge on hoping maybe I had imagined that sound or sleep on a rock. We plunged, I prayed and the trout gods were with us, I guess. Still think of that every time I'm wet wading, stumbling over rocks here.

Moved here a couple of years ago. Have three rental rooms halfway to Gastons at the tip of Cane Island. Certainly not a threat to Big Jim and his 588 rooms. Look me up next time you're coming here and I'll do the same when my girlie friend needs the big city fix in Branson.

Pat Brennan

[SilverMallard]

Most USCG criminal investigators are USCG Reserve. And they have law enforcement jurisdiction just like an FBI agent. And they appear to be regular Joes and Janes. Most have full-time jobs outside of law enforcement. Some are retirement age. All they have to do is book a day of fishing with a guide and that guide is in deep kimchee. And there is no way to "sniff them out." I have a friend who is one. He used to live in Branson. He traveled to other parts of the US for his 2-weeks of active duty time each year, where he ran undercover investigations in support of USCG law enforcement operations. And he is subject to activation/recall any time on 24-hour notice. He is also available 24/7 to local and state law enforcement for "back-up" or for his particular expertise.

But...up until now...USCG has not targeted this AREA for a "crackdown." They tend to prioritize more dangerous waterways, and they respond to areas where there is a cluster of accidents/insurance claims. But that is not to say it couldn't start tomorrow. And if there is a fatality or serious injury involving a guide or two, you can bet they will start paying attention.

[taxidermist]

That would sure shut down many Arkansas White River Guides!!!

Emailed the Ex and she said that accodring to the Coast gaurd there are rules outlining Nav. water. Her tester told her this.

Table Rock gets the Nav, by reason of the Ducks, Showboat and other on water attractions.

Taneycomo because of the Gravel barge that work it.

Degray gets it because of Ducks, and Ouachita same.

Next you get into the dive shops running boat for daily trips on our local lakes.

I can see bothside of why it is and why it is not needed.

Kind of like joining a Union, great in a closed shop states but sucks in an open shop state.

Keeps alot of people from guiding but does not prove that the guide knows how to catch fish.

[Rusty]

Interesting topic, I wonder how many "so called guides" this will affect? Or, do they play the odds?

[SilverMallard]

That would sure shut down many Arkansas White River Guides!!!

Emailed the Ex and she said that accodring to the Coast gaurd there are rules outlining Nav. water. Her tester told her this.

Table Rock gets the Nav, by reason of the Ducks, Showboat and other on water attractions.

Taneycomo because of the Gravel barge that work it.

Degray gets it because of Ducks, and Ouachita same.

Next you get into the dive shops running boat for daily trips on our local lakes.

I can see bothside of why it is and why it is not needed.

Kind of like joining a Union, great in a closed shop states but sucks in an open shop state.

Keeps alot of people from guiding but does not prove that the guide knows how to catch fish.

The license is about safely and reliably operating the BOAT. It isn't about catching fish. It isn't a "fishing guide" license. It is a license for the commercial operation of small motorized boats that carry up to 6 passengers at a time. Duck hunting guides who transport clients in boats need it too...depending on where they guide. Water taxi drivers need this or a superior license. The license has nothing whatsoever to do with fishing.

And, personally, I have never heard a meritorious argument for why it would NOT be a good idea for anyone who puts people in a boat for hire to have one.

FYI, the MAIN "hoop" that prevents most people from getting this license is the drug testing. That's based on surveys that have been done over the last couple of decades. The 2nd most troublesome "hoop" is that if you live in this part of the US you have to go to STL for a couple of days to get it. And most people fail the exams the first time they try. In my opinion, that is just due to lack of preparation. Most people fail the Rules of the Road test, which tests one's knowledge of the rules of safe navigation est. by the USCG. And there is a free book you can get from them to study by. And it's actually pretty simple stuff.

[Phil Lilley]

Simple for you... for someone like me who has trouble remembering stuff and freezes up on tests I don't know.

I like the idea of drug tests and physicals and other pertinant tests but the OUPV is a little overkill for a fishing guide using a bass boat on Table Rock. I wish they'd narrow the scope of the test to cover what we need to know for inland lakes only... not that I'm complaining or anything

I do look forward to the day I can show someone a certificate stating I'm a Captain. I appreciate those guides who have it all-the-more. Something to be proud of for sure.

[SilverMallard]

Simple for you... for someone like me who has trouble remembering stuff and freezes up on tests I don't know.

I like the idea of drug tests and physicals and other pertinant tests but the OUPV is a little overkill for a fishing guide using a bass boat on Table Rock. I wish they'd narrow the scope of the test to cover what we need to know for inland lakes only... not that I'm complaining or anything

I do look forward to the day I can show someone a certificate stating I'm a Captain. I appreciate those guides who have it all-the-more. Something to be proud of for sure.

I said "simple," not to be confused with "easy." ie. simple rules, simple system of markers, etc.

I like the 6-pack license because it lets you guide ANYWHERE (inland...or inland and littoral). And if that is what the license authorizes, then it's dead-on for what is required. If there was a license that only authorized a particular body of water, then it could be a LOT less extensive in many cases. But imagine the beauracracy necessary to administer such a licensing system. No, "one size fits all" is the best way to go and...in atypical fashion...the fed gov't took the most demanding case scenarios to set the licensing guidelines and figured overkill can't hurt. I like it. But it is a pain in the butt when you're trying to get one.

[Phil Lilley]

There are licenses that only cover "local" or regional waters... Bill can speak to this better than I. His is for the "White River Region" only. I can't take the 2-module (or 3-module, not sure) exam he took and guide in Alaska, I have to take the "unrestricted" exam to guide anywhere which includes charting. It's a 5-module test.

Here's some sample questions- this should be fun... don't google you answer either- that's cheating.

100. If you're approaching another vessel and aren't sure if it is a crossing or overtaking situation, you should:

A. Sound one blast, turn right

B. Sound one blast, turn left

C. Maintain course and speed

D. Assume an overtaking situation and keep clear

101. While underway in reduced visibility you hear about tow points on the starboard bow the fog signal of another vessel. You should:

A. Stop if necessary

B. Slow engines and let him pass

C. Alter course to starboard to pass around his stern

D. Alter course to port to pass on his port side

102. The rules concerning lights must be complied with from sunset to sunrise. They:

A. Must be displayed by all vessels at anchor also

B. Need not to be displayed by unmanned vessels

C. Must be displayed at all times during restricted visibility

D. Need not be displayed when other vessles are not in sight

[SilverMallard]

I thought there were only two types: inland and littoral. As I understood it, littoral includes the inland, but also adds open-water navigation and safety...including charting, of course. I did not know that you could get an inland license just for a specific waterway. Interesting.

Yes, the Alaska thing would require you get the "full meal deal." I was in the same "boat" (so to speak) guiding waterfowl hunts all over the US. And, yes, it does seem like overkill just to be legal running a jonboat around a 2' deep marsh. BUT, I could also have guided sea duck hunts off the coast of Maine during a Noreaster with that license. And that would have required everything they tested for. Running the Mississippi River in the Fall before dawn you need to know everything on the inland only license. There are wingdikes, big ole barges that will simply destroy you without noticing, and an avg 4mph current. Channel markers and caution buoys are very important. It's dangerous if you aren't well trained.

[Bill Babler]

Yes, there are several variations, of the 6-pack. There is the White River Region, There is also a Missippi delta Region, for inland waters only. No gulf operation. And there is a Northern Mississippi region, that covers the upper Miss and Great Lakes.

This test, is by no means easy. I was rules of the road and operations instructor for the MIssouri State Water Patrol for 4 years, and I didn't pass the test the first time I took it. You have two trys before you have to repeat the entire process.

The testing officer told me the test was not designed to test your knowledge, but to weed-you-out. All the questions were trick, and had multiple good answers, you just had to pick the best of the good.

There are 5 different exams that are basicly the same, and they rotate these to make sure no one has all the a, b, or c's coppied for the next guy.

You had better know all the lighting, weather and flag signals for every length of water craft, plus tons of barge information. I had at least 5 questions on barge operation from lighting to weather, to navigational aids, to fire retardants and the different extinguisher laws for each size vessel.

Here's a good one

A work Jacket must be worn when?

A. A barge is loading

B. When a barge is off loading

C. Anytime a barge is underway

D. During nightime operation.

My question, was what in the heck is a work jacket, I didn't know.

I didn't require the lic. when I was taking my guide trips in Alaska, as I was on a non-motorized raft. I was checked however by USCG and had not only my Alaska business permit, but also my White River Region 6-pack lic. They looked at it and never questioned me.

In my 16 years of full time guiding here, they have been here 3 times. The first was after the big accident with the guide on TAble Rock, the second, after the Arkansas duck accident and then again the next year.