Chicken Farm near Roaring River

[Phil Lilley]

http://www.ky3.com/news/6501612.html

I talked to someone from DNR the other day about the senate bill in the works... he brought up this farm and pointed out that most counties in the state have few rules governing aggraculture and farming practices, Barry County being one in the lacking column. I'd think the most effective way to govern this is on the county level cause each county needs to be handled differently. Counties in the south part of the state where there are springs and streams should, in their own interest, protect these area from damage BUT if they don't elect the people who see it this way, they won't.

It appears this chicken farm has basically jumped through all the hoops and by all legal means should be able to start their farm, according to county and state laws.

[Wayne SW/MO]

he brought up this farm and pointed out that most counties in the state have few rules governing agriculture and farming practices,

I think its deeper than that, most counties don't have electrical standards (neither does the state), sewer standards, building, water, etc. The state does still allow people to govern themselves, and that would be a good thing if the education was available to make voters good stewards, but much of it is masked over by special interest.

The state needs some revision to at least protect at the lowest level and educate at the highest level, the threats.

[SilverMallard]

The whole reason SB364 was introduced is because the folks in Barry County swore they would pass county ordinances to stop this farm if DNR approved their permits. I believe there were a couple of county commissioners among that group of residents who made this threat. Next thing we know, Satan...I mean Senator...Coster rammed this bill through committee and onto the floor with a recommendation to pass.

[MrsDucky]

Maybe the earliest founding fathers who were voted down were right-there should be requirements for voting and holding office other than just be free, white, and over 21. Did you know that one city actually had it in their charter that if the mayor cannot serve, the Student Body President at the high school becomes mayor? He did a great job, and was very impressive, but still! Too many people feel that one person can't make a difference...and sadly, they are usually proven right! No, I do NOT think that there should be restrictions placed on voting due to color, status, wealth, or sex. I would like to ask people if they actually know the difference between a tax levy and a bond issue, or if they think the former is that actor from American Pie, and the latter is a baseball player's nightmare!

[jscheetz]

I'd think the most effective way to govern this is on the county level cause each county needs to be handled differently. Counties in the south part of the state where there are springs and streams should, in their own interest, protect these area from damage

Phil, this is exactly what used to make me such a "no government intervention" kind of guy. I figured who better to take care of things than the people that live there. However, the older I get and the more I see this stuff happening, the more I realize that local people aren't always thinking big picture and there needs to be someone "overseeing" the whole thing to make sure this seemingly common sense stuff gets done. Whether it is chicken farms in MO or wolf killers in MT, I think the country needs to all have a say as to what happens to our natural resources.

Because many times the actual people who are putting in the farms etc don't even live in the state! They just take advantage of being able to "outwit" and out finance the local laws and people, which is much more difficult if they have to go through federal hoops. A housing development went in next to where I live and many people from here went to many meetings to try to stop it as the water and waste issues were not adequate. Of course as we sat at the meeting, we noticed several business owners from the area whose approval had been apparently "bought" - However, after many, many stops and starts, the development went in - and the beauty of it?? The ones putting it in are not even from here - so once the houses were all there - they split - so we still have the problems - and all they have is the cash So "local people" can also be taken advantage of without outside help.

Anyway - just a voice in the wilderness -

JS

[SilverMallard]

I think the REAL secret of what you are saying is that we have MULTIPLE LEVELS of "watchdogging" and checks and balances. These guys should have to meet federal, state, county, and local guidelines and requirements in order to operate.

If I open a business in Springfield, I have to get a city license, a Greene county license, in many cases a MO state license, and I have meet any federal requirements for my business...in some cases also requiring licensure. I then have to obey all local, county, state, and federal laws in operating this business.

What SB 364 would do is eliminate all gov't regulation of agri-business entities below the state level. And...fyi...MO only regulates the BIGGEST CAFO's at all. Anything below gargantuan size is completely exempt from pollution regs under MO state law.

[Max]

Once again, the chickens win and Missouri loses!

When it comes to "rights" in these sort of things, Abraham Lincoln put it this way "you don't have the right to do wrong".

In the legal realm, CAFOs have certain rights and environmental protection usually takes a back seat until something awful happens. In this particular case - given the proximity to precious Missouri natural areas - DNR should have exercised more wisdom and sought an exception to the rule. We've become so open-minded in this country that our brains have fallen out.

Another voice crying in the wilderness ...

Max

[SilverMallard]

Actually, you DO have the right to do wrong. The principle is enshrined in the US Constitution. You just don't have the right to avoid the consequences of your actions and you have to pay your own way (supposedly). It's called the presumption of innocence. Someone has to PROVE you did wrong beyond a reasonable doubt or by the preponderance of the evidence against you (criminal vs. civil). The fundamental ideal is that we must assume people are NOT doing wrong until we absolutely KNOW otherwise (as a gov't/society). If we didn't have the right to do wrong, then it would be honky dory for the gov't to lock people up if we THOUGHT they MIGHT do wrong. As a matter of fact, we are getting perilously close to that reality nowadays on a number of fronts.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Two points, first while its hard to tell Barry counties residents what they can and cannot do, it is simple to apply the "Downstream rule", which would affect Stone and its residents. Oklahoma pointed this out when they sued Arkansas and won.

I think the second thing is that all to often polluters get a hand slap and a bye, because after they are established the "Save Jobs" argument kicks in and no one wants to put people out of work.

[Max]

Quite right about right/wrong choices and consequences of our actions. The chicken farm does indeed have the right under permitting regulations to set up their operation and DNR will monitor good/bad consequences of this decision. We are indeed blessed in Missouri to have great Conservation & Natural Resource agencies which serve as watchdogs in this regard.

My overall concern is the proliferation of CAFOs in this country. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, some 500 million tons of wastes from animal feeding operations are produced each year. While such farms have good intentions to manage their waste properly, we all hear of occassional reports of inadvertent leaks into rivers and streams, fish kills, foul air, and contaminated drinking water supplies.

I eat meat and know the need for largescale animal production. I'm just concerned about the wisdom to allow location of some CAFOs. The Roaring River spring recharge area and White River watershed already have numerous permitted CAFOs.

Max