Hybrids in Bull Shoals?????

[wildminnow]

Like i said before prowler i will be using them top waters until I'm told by some one who knows what there talking about that it is not legal white bass love em

[PowersiteProwler]

You are the "wildminnow"

Yes, like I said, I have yet to find any figure of "authority" to validate that for me. They sure beat the hell out of Bob's blackheads, that' for sure. Enjoy your fishing weekend, I know it's going to be a cold one out, but hey who knows. You know the old saying, "A bad day fishing is better then a good day working!"

[Wayne SW/MO]

well I have heard some people say this decrease in fish is mainly because of people seining top water minnows from the creeks what do you guys think about that?

I suppose I have to ask how that would diminish the numbers of Whites. Whites have long been known for driving Shad to the surface, basically forcing them against the sky. I can't see the population of Topwater minnows in the creeks as having much of an affect.

Possibly seining is picking up large numbers of small Whites.

The Whites lost a major spawning ground when TR shut the gates.

[wildminnow]

I was being sarcastic about the top waters, Hornyhead chub was giving us a hard time earlier about seining and using topwater minnows as bait, so that was just a little jab at him, I have no answers for the lack of white bass over the last few years I have been a loyal white bass fisherman in the area for 20 years and am really disappointed in the recent years fishing results.

[Wayne SW/MO]

You got me hook line an sinker.

I have to believe, based on years of fishing for them that a lack of spawn is a big reason, but food competition could play into it. I would think that the millions of Walleye's put in BS would have to have some effect.

[Sam]

food competition could play into it. I would think that the millions of Walleye's put in BS would have to have some effect.

So - white bass have declined because they don't have enough to eat, and that's because millions of walleyes ate up the minnows? Presumably, all those walleyes would be pretty hungry now, too.

That would be the walleyes that NOBODY CAN FIND in upper Bull Shoals any more, huh? Walleye fishing and black bass fishing there have declined as bad as the white bass. Even crappie fishing has dropped off above Mincy, and lots of (uneaten) shad minnows and gar are what I see in the upper lake.

I think it's pollution.

[Wayne SW/MO]

white bass have declined because they don't have enough to eat

I don't believe I said that was the reason Sam, only that it could have some effect, along with poor spawns, and yes maybe some pollution.

However, of the lakes that seem to have a fair population of Whites, here and in Oklahoma, all that I know of have a reasonable size flow feeding them for spawning. Shad, the principal prey of Whites, also need a good flow, so I'm putting my money on poor spawning.

I might add that when BS was really an outstanding White fishery, in the mid 50's, it had a good flow coming in, something it generally lacks now.

[Tightline]

I would tend to agree with Sam that there is some other reason besides water flow thats causing the fish to disappear.Like I stated earlier in a post the early 80s were much worse as far as water flow,the whites ran up swan with their backs out of the water from one deep hole to another,it wasn't a 1/4 of the flow we have now.I remember walking across the cove where Indian point boat dock sets in the summer of 1980.

The Whites and Walleye will and do spawn in the river below Powersite also,there are shoals between Swan and the Dam that are perfect in low water for this.From 1952-1956 was the worst drought in SW Missouri history,even worse than the 30s (Dust Bowl years)and according to some that lived and fished there then, the Whites were there,They had to go down stream to the Barker and Johnson holes and below Beaver to catch them but they were there!

There is no doubt that low water isn't good,but the fact is they have always made it through those years without such a loss of population as there is now.Attached is a graph of drought severity that includes our area.

Also my brother was fishing below the dam one evening about 2 weeks ago before the weather changed,the water was off,no generation,he said there was a funny looking film on top of the water,and it smelled musty.Thats making me wonder now if there isn't something wrong.

[FRENZEL]

I never have a problem finding minnows or shad anywhere on bull shoals. The lack of food in my opinion can not be the reason. It has to be something with the spawns. Could something be eating the eggs? Silt/sediment smothering them? Comes along with pollution? Maybe some of those giant man eating crawdads are getting fat on white bass eggs.

[Sam]

I don't believe I said that was the reason Sam, only that it could have some effect

Wayne SW/MO - Yeah, I didn't mean to write my post in a smart-aleck way. Sorry, no offense intended.

I'm just frustrated by the situation in upper Bull Shoals. For years, I felt like I had my own little hidey-hole there. I'd stay away from the crowds on Tablerock, drive 35 miles from home to K Dock, and there'd be maybe three other rigs in the parking lot. I got to know every stump and rock from Beaver Creek to Bear Creek, and I had many GREAT trips for white bass, bass, crappie, and walleyes there.

ALL those species have declined dramatically in the past few years, and the white bass have almost disappeared. There's gar, carp, and mud turtles everywhere and few game fish. There's "soapsuds" on the bank, and a slick film on the rocks up by the dam. Now, I can't say exactly what's going on there - but the State has professionals who are supposed to be on top of this stuff.

It's frustrating to me that we're several years into this problem and the biologists at MDC haven't even figured it out yet. It doesn't seem to me like they're trying very hard, either - they're still talking about it maybe being caused by water flow and fluctuating water levels in an area that has ALWAYS had great variations in water levels.

If it's pollution, it may not even be happening now. People lived around that area for over 100 years before the lake was filled, and back then they were real careless about the environment. This problem could be caused by something as simple as one rusted-out barrel of chemical or service-station waste buried near or under the lake in the 1950's.

To get the effects we're seeing, such pollution wouldn't have to be lethal to the fish - just making the water low-quality and an area in which game fish wouldn't want to stay and reproduce would be enough. It would take a real testing program to find something like that and get it removed, but it could be done.

To me, it's a HUGE deal when 10 miles of a public lake gets degraded this suddenly and obviously. You'd think the State would be all over it - but they're not. It makes me think they're simply unwilling to confront the situation, and I feel like we've lost a lot and aren't getting any help from the MDC.